Classical Music Forum banner

Getting metal fans involved with classical music

22K views 43 replies 22 participants last post by  GucciManeIsTheNewWebern 
#1 ·
I've started asking metalheads if they like classical:

http://www.magle.dk/music-forums/6157-classical-music-metalheads.html
http://www.nwnprod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8486
http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/index.php/topic,6358.msg35127.html
http://www.metal-realm.net/forum/showthread.php?p=524743
http://www.revolvermag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3773
http://www.metalhordes.com/forum/showthread.php?p=106123#post106123
http://www.heartofmetal.net/let-the-music-do-the-talking-f8/classical-music-t10100.htm#248470
http://www.metal-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=150135#150135
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=20446492#post20446492

Also am asking forum leaders to create classical forums in their metal forums.

This may all seem stupid to you, but it was inspired by this:

Classical music offers what everyone secretly wishes metal would: an unbroken cultural tradition untamed by the modern whore, untouchable by the mediocre tools who seem to thrive in our industrial cities.

Here's a few favorites:

1. Brahms, Johannes - Get your Romanticism on. Flowing, diving, surging passages which storm through tyrannical opposition to reach some of the most Zen states ever put to music. 4 Symph. (2CD)

2. Respighi, Ottorino - Italian music is normally inconsequential. This has an ancient feeling, a sense of weight that can only be borne out in an urge to reconquest the present with the past. Pines, Birds, Fountains of Rome

3. Saint-Saens, Camille - Like DeBussy, but with a much wider range, this modernist Romantic rediscovers all that is worth living in the most warlike and bleak of circumstances. Symph. 3

4. Bruckner, Anton - Writing symphonic music in the spirit of Wagner, Bruckner makes colossal caverns of sound which evolve to a sense of great spiritual contemplation, the first "heaviness" on record.Romantic Symphony

5. Schubert, Franz - A sense of power emerging from darkness, and a clarity coming from looking into the halls of eternity, as translated by the facile hand of a composer who wrote many great pieces before dying young. Symph. 8 & 9

6. Paganini, Niccolo - Perhaps the original Hessian, this long-haired virtuoso wore white face paint, had a rumored deal with the devil, and made short often violent pieces that made people question their lives and their churches. 24 Caprices

Classical Music for Metal Fans and Metalheads
I think we should encourage metalheads and classicalheads (heh) to meet halfway.

One comment shows the difficulty of our task, however:

It's hilarious checking out that forum and finding such a contrast - here we find metalheads who all have a huge respect for classical music, who are educated about it and have listened to it, and at that forum are people who are supposedly above everyone else because they're classical music purists, don't understand metal and berate and belittle everyone who has something to say about it. I love it.

http://www.returntothepit.com/view.php?formid=52154
Metalheads are used to people slagging their music, so the hostile responses here fit into a stereotype. They're counterproductive.

If we are open to people coming in and learning more, we may get another generation of fans from this genre.

Thoughts appreciated.
 
See less See more
#2 · (Edited)
To make it crystal clear what I see as "hostile responses":

None, zero, zilch; don't go near it, it's terrible. :)
Metal is the worst genre of pop music. Funk, hip-hop and reggae are the best.
metalheads are ugly and gross. Those 'metal' girls make me want to hurl and the boys look like smelly unkempt yokels with tasteless, revolting piercing through every flap of skin. (and if they don't look like that that's only because they're too pussy or their mum won't let them - not through want of desire) They all look brain dead (which they must be) and they all deserve to be shot.
Nobody of any worth is a metalhead.
Or we could just ban anyone who expresses even the vaguest interest in becoming interested in becoming interested in metal. Or we could just stone them.. that's always a viable option.
It is the fact Conservationist and most of the ANUSites (yes, you included) pretend to know about classical music when it's obvious that doesn't have the knowledge to discuss Classical. This is not a Metal forum.
That reason alone, and the fact that I hate metal or any kind of "music" which lacks real musicianship, should be reason enough to avoid it.
But we still hate you and think your facile and pretentious breed of pop music is only fit to line a dust bin.
They're all geeky satanists and their music sounds like sped up computerised noise with foul vocals and laughable subject matters.
Real musicians don't play metal, they play classical and jazz. Rock, metal, country, etc. are all styles of music that were created, in my opinion, because these "musicians" couldn't play classical or jazz and obviously showed no desire to do so, which in turn, means they don't understand the kind of commitment it takes to become a virtuoso on their instrument. But instrumentalists aside, there aren't any rewarding qualities about metal that interests me.
That was a hilarious post. Thanks for the laugh.
You won't be seeing me listening to metal either....ever. I don't listen to nonsense.
Metal isn't musicians music. I simply don't know any musicians of considerable talent who value it as an art form...as if these drugged out D- students have any right to discuss anything academic..
Metal is nonsense. It's all rooted in something that doesn't serve any purpose. It's only purpose, it seems, is to make people bash beer bottles on their heads and run around in a mosh pit like some uncivilized tribal ritual. The only difference here is people get hurt for no reason.
 
#23 ·
Those responses are typical of people that are ignorant of metal in all its forms.

That reason alone, and the fact that I hate metal or any kind of "music" which lacks real musicianship, should be reason enough to avoid it.
That reason alone, and the fact that I hate metal or any kind of "music" which lacks real musicianship, should be reason enough to avoid it.
Real musicians don't play metal, they play classical and jazz. Rock, metal, country, etc. are all styles of music that were created, in my opinion, because these "musicians" couldn't play classical or jazz and obviously showed no desire to do so, which in turn, means they don't understand the kind of commitment it takes to become a virtuoso on their instrument. But instrumentalists aside, there aren't any rewarding qualities about metal that interests me.
Metal isn't musicians music. I simply don't know any musicians of considerable talent who value it as an art form...as if these drugged out D- students have any right to discuss anything academic.
These comments specifically, are bothersome and provabley wrong.

There are so many metal bands in the subgenres of: prog-metal, technical-metal, metal-fusion with amazing levels of musicianship. Many of them are classically or jazz trained. And they are composing and performing music with very high levels of complexity.

But then, I once opened a thread here specifically aimed at dispelling misconceptions of metal (that it is all brutish, simple, has no real musicianship, appeals to lowest common denominator), and received almost nothing but disdain, even from fans of metal. I was accused of not really being a fan of metal, because the metal I listened to was so far removed from the 'standard' of the genre that it really doesn't resemble the genre.

http://www.talkclassical.com/30877-dispelling-sime-metal-misconceptions.html?highlight=

So, either people don't like metal because it is simple, has poor musicianship, is brutish, etc. But then, when metal bands play complex forms, that are sophisticated, with high level of musicianship, it is no longer metal.

The moral? You can't win against the closed minded.
 
  • Like
Reactions: starthrower
#3 ·
Bombastic orchestral pieces often come to mind when classical is recommended for metalhead, but the string quartet genre has some headbanging material as well. For some reason string instruments sound sharper and harsher when they aren't backed up by other string instruments playing the same notes, while string orchestra on the other hand has usually this smooth, velvety sound.

Good examples I might recommend to metalheads interested in classical, more specifially fans of extreme metal genres:

Bartók - String Quartet No. 4 - 5th movement, SQ no. 5 - 5th movement
Shostakovich SQ no. 8 - 2nd movement
 
#4 ·
For some reason string instruments sound sharper and harsher when they aren't backed up by other string instruments playing the same notes, while string orchestra on the other hand has usually this smooth, velvety sound.
It's a combination of acoustics and appropriate performing style.

The aspects of the sound that you are describing in the solo string sound become swallowed in the whole of the sound in a larger ensemble. The unison will find it's "complete" sound which cancels out the individual nuances - it is the nature of sound to do this. And knowing of this phenomenon, players will play more like a section to find that perfectly balanced sound.

A really good string section will try to play with exactly the same nuances, so not always velvety and smooth, but more dynamic like what can be achieved in a solo sound - but it has to be very precise to work. It is the mark of a great orchestra that has this kind of discipline, and quite rare.

But, this is the same with all instruments. Think of the individual singer and the choir - very different sound. Even with electric guitars - have you ever heard Glenn Branca's guitar symphonies?! Usually scored for 10 amplified electric guitars + drums and bass. Certainly worth a listen. The individuality is lost for a mass sound...ummm, not sure if I would describe it as velvety, though. Crazy weird but good, although best live.

Also, think of the Metallica sound - multi layed guitars to achieve that homogeneous fat sound - same principals. Even with the use of distortion and subtle chorusing (which mimic multiple players), a single player will never sound the same.

Good examples I might recommend to metalheads interested in classical, more specifially fans of extreme metal genres:

Bartók - String Quartet No. 4 - 5th movement, SQ no. 5 - 5th movement
Shostakovich SQ no. 8 - 2nd movement
Very solid choices! I love those pieces. Have you heard the Emerson SQ recording of the Bartok - my favorite.
 
#7 ·
Music can divide and separate (as a bra advert used to state!),but many 'classical' music fans can be so snobbish that its amazing they don't get their heads caved in. I've found that heavy metal fans are some of the most faithful and sincere folk I've met. I used to read a certain classical music forum and became so annoyed by the 'Old Boy' atitude that I moved on to this website. Classical music is'nt a private club.
I do enjoy heavy metal,and to those 'Satanists' I put my hands up and say Ava Satanas!
Mongoose.
 
#9 ·
Good one Conservationist, it gets me sick to see these elitist people who think thevye risen to the top of society through their music tast like Bach and Mirror Image. Nobody cares if youre now at oxford but you came from the ghetto.
 
#13 ·
elitist people
The point, to my mind, of musical elitism is to find the best and paint the world with it. It's not about people/personalities. It's about the music.

All IMHO.

Someone mentioned the Misfits... interesting music there. I can appreciate some of the old hardcore but its limited range of notes makes it very "rhythm music," even more so than most rock, jazz, blues, etc. I can still cheer for the Amebix, Cro-Mags, Misfits, Discharge, GBH and Exploited however.
 
#11 ·
For the record, I have absolutely NOTHING against metal music, rap music, pop music or any other type of music that is often berated by the "typical classical snob." I grew up listening to very eclectic stuff from the Sex Pistols to the Misfits to the Beastie Boys to Sublime. Anyone who tries to tell me this type of music is lesser than classical is missing the point. It's a different genre, no more no less.
 
#12 ·
This is a very good idea. A marriage of the two genres with respect would be a great idea. Both metal and classical music are different yet have similarities, no one, however, can deny that the fans of both forms of music are similar as well. (Here is a hint: The long hair! lol) But in all seriousness, psychiatrists have found big similarities between the fans of both forms. Making both listen to each others music and understand may be a very good thing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ical-music-fans-share-personality-traits.html
 
#15 ·
Someone mentioned the Misfits... interesting music there. I can appreciate some of the old hardcore but its limited range of notes makes it very "rhythm music," even more so than most rock, jazz, blues, etc. I can still cheer for the Amebix, Cro-Mags, Misfits, Discharge, GBH and Exploited however.
I don't think so. At least, I just listed them with the other hardcore favorites.
 
#17 ·
About Wagner:

Since Transformers is out today, I'll do it. Wagner is kind of like the Michael Bay of classical. It's big, and it's easy for the great unwashed to get into, but there is way more sophisticated, far better classical music out there. That, and 99.9% repeating of 'fans' have pretty much only ever heard "Ride of the Valkyries" and beyond that couldn't name a single work of that man. Or, if seconds after they professed their love of Wagner you played them the Bridal Chorus and asked them if they liked that kind of classical music, they'd probably tell you that's lame, despite the fact that Wagner wrote it.

In short, Wagner is what most people reply when asked if they like classical, and they want to say yes to make it look like they do, without naming the obvious ones like Beethoven or Mozart, but in reality, they don't really like classical at all and wouldn't ever dream of putting it on their iPod.
But you admire him for his writings? You mean those lumiary works such as Judaism in Music? Wonderful history teacher you had there, did he read aloud from Mein Kampf as well?

I really could care less about what his political views were then either...**** loads of people were racist in the 1800s. His music is just a bunch of boisterous staccato explosions. A few cool moments which pass as "stirring" if you're marching in a military parade I suppose, but IMO fall far short of the brilliance of other composers.

Oh, and I know more than two Wagner "songs". My point is, the vast majority of people who say they dig Wagner don't. They give that answer because they think it's the cool answer to give. If you asked them which they prefer, Parsifal or Tristan und Isolde, they'd look at you like you'd sneezed.
I wish Bach would register on that board and whoop that guy's ***!
 
#19 ·
I wish Bach would register on that board and whoop that guy's ***!
Maybe we all should.

Not suggesting a "board war" or something of that nature, but an informed group with a dissenting opinion coming in to cause problems.

IMHO, politics should always be separate from music. I'm not going to stop listening to Discharge just because they were a bunch of Reds or something.

(Although I can handle Discharge about once a year.)
 
#21 · (Edited)
I spent my life from university onward living with and working with classical musicians who LOVE and ADORE the music they learn and perform and listen to every day. From these people (you know who you are!) I've learned to love and need in my life: Frank Zappa, The Beatles, Steely Dan, Saint Etienne, Led Zeppelin, Miles Davis, Pink Floyd, Stevie Wonder, Thomas Dolby, Earth Wind & Fire, Cannonball Adderley, Dexter Gordon, Morphine and much more excellent music.

The question posed by the original post is an interesting one. A few years ago a friend of mine decided he wanted to get to appreciate classical music. He is now a freak for classical music. The piece that did it was Mahler 5. The usual approach that many take, with things like The Four Seasons, Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, or "Packabell" Canon, is misguided, in my opinion. Metal music (to my minimal knowledge) involves technical pyrotechnics and intense power of emotion. The most appropriate classical music may be like for like. Someone suggested a Bartok string quartet. Good idea. What about Messiaen Turangalila-Symphony, or Mosolov Iron Foundry, Prokofiev Cantata for the....October Revolution?
 
#33 · (Edited)
I totally agree. I'm a huge fan of metal myself, and I've noticed there's this fixation among people to compare metal music to classical and draw parallels. There's a certain post-metal band I like that is very sophisticated in its songwriting, and critics like to compare them to classical even when the band themselves say their music is totally unrelated to classical.
Advanced compositional technique Classical Music .

This sounds pretentious and gatekeeping on my part, but honestly... a lot of those metalheads only seem to care about bombastic orchestral/symphonic music cause its sounds 'metal' and ignore everything else (*cough* Wagner *cough*). I don't want to make a gross generalization, but I think that has a grain of truth to it.
 
#37 · (Edited)
I've straight up never heard the metal + orchestra combination done tastefully. I've heard strings and winds tastefully implemented into metal, but a full orchestra/metal crossover always ends up being straight up pretentious garbage.

There's a genre called 'symphonic metal' but that is very misleading. It's actually cheesy power metal with pseudo-classical flourishes thrown in. They usually have these female singers with gorgeous operatic voices, but the music they're singing over is way too goofy for me to like it. (Examples: Nightwish, Beyond Temptation, Evanescence). A lot of people do like it and there's nothing terribly wrong with it, but it's definitely not for me.
 
#42 ·
Openeness with age

I once saw a meme that read "Classical is Heavy Metal before electricity." The unknown author was dead on.

Maybe depending on our own personality and how and whom we are raised around dictates whether or not we are open to different genres of music.

I remember discovering metal music and was hooked. From then on I did not want anything in my cereal bowl or on my dinner plate, but nuts-bolts-chains. I was 15 yrs at the time. In my twenties, I discovered film scores which brought my attention to classical. Hearing the natural growl of the cello filled my soul. By then I recognized that heavy metal (esp death metal) is the continuum and evolution of classical.

Super cool to have found this old thread!
 
#43 · (Edited)
By then I recognized that heavy metal (esp death metal) is the continuum and evolution of classical.
I think that's a bit too much as a statement, even because classical music still exists. It's just one of the many genres that sometimes has been influenced by some forms of classical music, like jazz, choro, pop, rock, progressive rock, electronic music.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top