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Is There a Great Composer You Plain Just Don't Like

164K views 2K replies 383 participants last post by  EdwardBast 
#1 · (Edited)
I have been listening to classical music since I was a teenager, about 40 years. My specialty is in the Romantic and Classic eras, but I try to expose myself to all kinds of Classical.
I know what I am about to say is tantamount to blasphemy on these forums, but I just don't like Johann Sebastian Bach. There, I said it. Outside of the Toccata and Fugue in D minor I can honestly say there is one piece of his that doesn't either put me to sleep or make me nervous or give me a headache, or all three of the above.
I know, I know. I've studied enough to know that Bach is one of the greatest of all the gods in the Classical spectrum. I know how extremely influential he was. I know most Classical fans adore him. I have given him chance after chance. I feel that there must be something in me that is somehow deficient to not appreciate his genius.
I am not looking for anyone to contradict my views, I fear they are set in concrete. I was wondering if anyone else has a virulent dislike to one of the acknowledged geniuses of Classical composition?
I am still very new to the forums and I was wondering what you think!
 
#3 ·
Nice one.

I can't think of any great composers that I have never at any time been keen on. In my case, I have rather lost interest to varying extents in several of them. Top of the list would be Wagner, Mahler, Bruckner.

Brahms is beginning to pall somewhat too. In the latter case, the more adulation I have recently seen about him expressed on this Board the less keen I become. For similar reasons I have rather gone off Ravel (brings back quite dreadful memories), and Sibelius is heading in the same direction.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Funny you bring up Wagner. I went through a major phase where I adored just about all of his operas, particularly the Ring. Now I find so much of his music just plain overblown. I don't dislike him, but my youthful ardor has cooled somewhat! I still like Wagner more than Mark Twain who once quipped that Wagner's music "isn't as bad as it sounds."
 
#6 ·
Funny you bring up Wagner. I went through a major phase where I adored just about all of his operas, particularly the Ring. Now I find so much of his music just plain overblown. I don't dislike him, but my youthful ardor has cooled somewhat!
My CD collection is brimming with the works of all the second half 19th C great composers, as I went from one to another in often considerable enthusiasm. With limited exceptions, most of all that very heavily romanticised music is no longer of much interest to me.

Rather I have gone back to my teenager "roots" (which I sadly left some 11 years ago) of liking most of all the classical/early romantic composers. In the process I have been discovering lots of good material from composers who used to be mainly just names to me (e.g. Stamitz, Kraus, Myslivecek, Vanhal, Cimarosa, Rosetti, Dittersdorf).

To me that was the "golden age" age of classical music, and it's all been downhill since, after the virtually coincident deaths of Beethoven and Schubert. I say this partly to stir up a few other souls. Let's see what happens.

BTW, welcome to T-C.
 
#5 ·
What a dangerous thread. Let's see how the free flow of ideas is impeded by those who simply cannot stand to see their favorite composers receive negative criticsm.

Mozart - Boring. I don't blindly buy into his greatness. I know we are all expected to worship him, and he was certainly a competant musician, but his end product, for me, are like stale cream puffs.

Mahler - Beginning to like him less and less. Symphonies 1,2 and 6 are great. Everything else I can do without.

Tchaikovsky - Really a hit and miss composer. I like a lot of his stuff, but can't stand a lot of it either. Over-rated as a symphonist, in my opinion.

Dvorak - Also over-rated as a symphonist. Just my opinion.

I could go on and on, but for the sake of my sanity, I will stop here. And before anyone attacks me, consider the great composers YOU don't like and ask yourself whether or not YOU deserve to be attacked for YOUR selections.
 
#43 ·
What a dangerous thread. Let's see how the free flow of ideas is impeded by those who simply cannot stand to see their favorite composers receive negative criticsm.

Mozart - Boring. I don't blindly buy into his greatness. I know we are all expected to worship him, and he was certainly a competant musician, but his end product, for me, are like stale cream puffs.

Mahler - Beginning to like him less and less. Symphonies 1,2 and 6 are great. Everything else I can do without.

Tchaikovsky - Really a hit and miss composer. I like a lot of his stuff, but can't stand a lot of it either. Over-rated as a symphonist, in my opinion.

Dvorak - Also over-rated as a symphonist. Just my opinion.

I could go on and on, but for the sake of my sanity, I will stop here. And before anyone attacks me, consider the great composers YOU don't like and ask yourself whether or not YOU deserve to be attacked for YOUR selections.
I agree... Mozart is pretty boring. I just can't get too into it. Tchaikovsky too. But both are still better than:
 
#8 ·
Bruckner. In general I'm fan of "over-blown" music, but he? Mahler is damn expressive and great with what he did in symphonic genre, but Bruckner sounds like pastiche (sometimes even like parody) of truely romantic music.

He sounds so empty and wanna-be romantic to me. And his person. I expect my favourite composers to be romantic heroes, not boring, bald geezers.

What else, what else...
 
#289 ·
Bruckner. In general I'm fan of "over-blown" music, but he? Mahler is damn expressive and great with what he did in symphonic genre, but Bruckner sounds like pastiche (sometimes even like parody) of truely romantic music.

He sounds so empty and wanna-be romantic to me. And his person. I expect my favourite composers to be romantic heroes, not boring, bald geezers.

What else, what else...
It is a shame you are not musically mature enough for Bruckner's works. How you could think of Bruckner's symphonies as "empty" is a mystery to me: he is able to draw more sound from an orchestra than any composer, not only because of his spectacular orchestration, but also because of the way in which he structures his melodies. He is not a "parody" of truly romantic music, he IS truly romantic music.

As for your shallow comment about his appearance, I don't view any composers as being "heroes," which, in this case, I would assume means bulging muscles and flowing hair? A little silly don't you think?
 
#10 ·
I dunno....there's a lot of popular music (I presume that is what you mean by 'great', unless looking for some technical; theoretical, innovative or other criterion for defining greatness...)

Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Haydn, Schumann, Mahler, Wagner all leave me indifferent. Except maybe Wagner - I'd find Boyzone or Beyonce more listenable than his stuff :)

'Obese' is a great way to describe their kinds of classical music: symphonic obesity is overwhelming. happy froppy classical music likewise. That was the then equivalent of Boyzone or Beyonce :)
 
#24 ·
I think you are more suited to be in the Boyzone/boyband forums. Or are you here to post for the sake of posting? I just don't see what the point is of your retarded post by crossing out the greats from Bach to Wagner and linking the "indifference" with preference for Boyzone or Beyonce in a Classical forum. And your nonsensical placement of smilies afterwards.

Oh, unless of course you were meant to be joking. Then very silly of me.
 
#12 ·
I second the OP's expression of his dislike for Bach.

As well as that, I still hate Mahler. I give him chance after chance after chance, but his music always strikes me as vapid and pointless :D

Also, in line with opinions about composers who fall out of favour and seem hit and miss, then I absolutely have to mention Rachmaninov. I used to love his music. Now, I can't even remember the last time I listened to it. It's just boring now; I feel other composers expressed everything he wanted to but in much better ways.
 
#13 ·
For those who dislike Bach's music, have you tried a HIP recording of some of the Bach favourites? Me think HIP do far greater justice to Bach's work (Baroque in general, too). And if you have, and still dislike Bach, well ignore what I have just wrote.
 
#672 ·
Hip, schmip - too often perfectly made and perfectly boring. A miracle when he wrote every day and about 1300 works that a handful are inspired. Stiff counterpoint like the ticking gears of an 18th century chronometer. I like crossword puzzles, and everything falling neatly and cleverly into place - but I do not consider them 'art.'
 
#14 ·
My, we are putting our shortcomings on display, aren't we?
Nearly all the 'big names' have written something redeeming, even if most of their ouevre strikes you personally as disagreeable (hateful? wow. I'd reserve description that for transient commercial pop). Even composers whose works I make no further effort to hear; Tchaikovsky, for instance, still have a few offerings whose greatness I'll concede.
cheers,
Graeme
 
#22 ·
My, we are putting our shortcomings on display, aren't we?
Can you please explain what these "shortcomings" are? Giving honest answers about how our tastes don't always flow with the mainstream, I suppose?

I'm sorry, but being told all these years that Mozart is great, and Dvorak is great and Chopin is great, etc., means nothing to me if I don't like their music. If they communicate something to you, by all means, embrace it. But please don't refer to one's lack of appreciation for a "great" composer as a shortcoming. It comes off as snooty.

I think threads like this are healthy, by the way. Why should we only talk about the composers we love? There are two sides to every coin.
 
#16 ·
I'm having trouble appreciating Bach too. Everything I listen to from him just sounds so "dense", where there's so many notes and voices that I have a hard time following any melody. I just ordered a CD of his French Suites, gonna give those a try because I read that they're relatively simple and short. Chopin kind of bores me too.
 
#487 ·
Shostakovich for me! Reminds me too much of a B-grade horror movie soundtrack.
Britten - sounds derivative and warped and pallid in its expression - I could write better not that he can be called 'great' by any standard
Even if Scriabin would compose most terible music in the world I would still listen to him because of his moustache.
I think I voted for Scriabin as one of my favourite symphonists in a relevant thread not long ago, but I feel like taking it back now.
This thread is hilarious!! :lol:

Here's my contribution. I don't like Handel's music.. boring and uninspiring. And I don't really like operas in general. But I never give up with classical music. I still remember that summer night being shocked by Beethoven late string quartets box set which I owned for 11 or 12 years. They used to be just background music :D, now I find them so full of energy and emotion! I thought Beethoven must have been a mad man to create music like that!!
 
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#19 ·
IThat's similar to my feelings regarding Haydn - I still can't give a valid opinion on his music even though I've heard a lot of it. I'm just waiting for that 'moment of truth' - whether it it sudden or gradual.
I'd recommend this:



Or this:



I can't explain it, but the opening of this second movement is just sublime for me. These were "moment of truth" works for me. Now, I'm a big fan.

I don't hate any of the greats, and, well, I hate very little music. Something to be enjoyed everywhere. Any time I'm bored, I feel it has more to do with me in that moment than the music.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I'd say for those who don't like Bach, give him some time - 5, 10, maybe 15 years. I have other favorite composers (along with Bach), but I can still agree without hesitation that Bach is the single greatest classical composer of all time.

If something sounds "too dense", chances are it's you who hasn't come around to the music yet. (and that is meant in the kindest manner possible) That doesn't make Bach any worse. Or maybe you just haven't heard enough of Bach's glorious output to understand him. That's similar to my feelings regarding Haydn - I still can't give a valid opinion on his music even though I've heard a lot of it. I'm just waiting for that 'moment of truth' - whether it it sudden or gradual.

I've played Bach since I was a kid, but even with all those years it was hard to come around to his music until much later. Playing some of his fugues is like brain surgery!
 
#38 ·
If something sounds "too dense", chances are it's you who hasn't come around to the music yet. (and that is meant in the kindest manner possible) That doesn't make Bach any worse. Or maybe you just haven't heard enough of Bach's glorious output to understand him.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying saying he is bad, only describing what it sounds like to my ear as a relative novice to classical music.
 
#21 ·
"Is There a Great Composer You Plain Just Don't Like"

No, I don't think so. Although I've never met any of the "acknowledged" great ones.

Oh, you mean their music. Mm, still no.

I was wondering if anyone else has a virulent dislike to one of the acknowledged geniuses of Classical composition?
Not me. I think they've all made excellent contributions to the vast musical landscape. Of course, I do have my preferences for certain works by certain composers.

I can't think of a single composer that hasn't written at least one work that I like.

So what am I doing in this thread? I'm not sure. This really isn't a very good contribution, is it. Oh well.
 
#25 ·
It's nothing approaching a decent sized poll but looking at the limited number of views expressed so far it seems that top of the list of dislikes is Mahler, followed by Tchaikovsky and then Bruckner and Bach. Thus, at least as regards Mahler and Bruckner, I'm not alone.

I agree with the point made previously that people should be free to express their likes and dislikes among composers without fear of being accused of lacking in education or experience. It irritates me especially when I am informed that my general dislike of contemporary classical music is due to lack of effort to appreciate it. I seldom express an opinion on matters musical without having given it a fair chance beforehand. More generally, it's very easy to become infatuated with certain of the the greatest composers on the way up the learning curve, and it's quite easy to spot these fans. I'm generally far more interested in the opinions of people who have a lot of listening experience under their "belts".

In the case of the OP, I can well understand and appreciate what was said about Bach. He is not everyone's cup of tea, even among people who may like baroque music generally. Personally, I prefer Handel, Vivaldi, and Purcell as I too find a lot of Bach's music over-dense. But that's not to say that I dislike Bach. I still rate him (objectively) as one of the top three composers of all time.
 
#27 ·
It's nothing approaching a decent sized poll but looking at the limited number of views expressed so far it seems that top of the list of dislikes is Mahler, followed by Tchaikovsky and then Bruckner and Bach.
And Wagner I guess..

More generally, it's very easy to become infatuated with certain of the the greatest composers on the way up the learning curve, and it's quite easy to spot these fans. .
Which doesn't mean that the infatuation isn't there after many years of listening. I have a lot of listening experience under my "belt" and I am still "infatuated" by Beethoven's music :) but not by many other composers who are regarded as the greats.
 
#29 ·
Very interesting discussion. :)

In my previous post I wrote that I didn't like Tchaikovsky. Even Wagner's and Händel's music leave me completely unaffected.
Yep. Wagner does nothing to me, along with many Romantics and all those that follow (chronologically speaking).
 
#32 ·
There are a few composers that I don't appreciate in a manner consistent with their considered reputations. I slightly prefer Bach to the other Baroque composers (so far), but haven't made much progress with Handel, and even less with Vivaldi. I hope that (like Air says) one day it'll eventually come together for me.

Considering that he composed during a period that contains a great deal of my favorite music, Scriabin has been pretty resistant to my attempts to enjoy and appreciate his output.

I am making progress with Haydn. It's not going to be in the nature of an epiphany, though. The forward momentum is little-by-little. I suspect that my forays into Baroque will be a similarly slow accumulation of understanding.

This might not be the place for it-- but (speaking of Haydn) I had this thought recently re: the relative valuation of Haydn & Mozart. (A topic previously discussed in a few other places.) Try this experiment- whistle a Mozart tune. (Don't need to know hardly anything about Classical Music to be able to do that.) O.K.: whistle another one. Half-a-dozen. A dozen. Two dozen. Many of you (if not necessarily me) can keep going still!

Now whistle a Haydn tune. Half-a-dozen? A dozen (if you can)? You run out of "tunes" much more quickly, no?

Of course, one can argue that this misses the point of Haydn's greatness. That seeking "Haydn tunes" is as relevant to comprehending Haydn as seeking "Bruckner tunes" is to an understanding of Bruckner. However, it could go a long way to explaining the (pretty much default) higher esteem placed on Mozart.
 
#33 ·
Considering that he composed during a period that contains a great deal of my favorite music, Scriabin has been pretty resistant to my attempts to enjoy and appreciate his output.
Hes another one I took ages to get into - his orchestral works were a sickly mush - it took
5th Piano sonata to draw me in properly and now i believe him almost to be the greatest piano composer of the 20 th century
 
#37 ·
I'm with rojo, I never encountered a classical composer of (some) fame where I like nothing of his/her output.
That said, the following composers do much less for me than for most classical music lovers:

Handel
Verdi (except Requiem)
Bartok
Stravinsky (except early ballets)
Walton
 
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