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Thread: Sounds similar to Beethoven and Brahms?

  1. #16
    Senior Member jhar26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallefred View Post

    I'll look up Ries. Thanks for the tip.
    Yes, check him out. But he's in my opinion not a 'great' composer, but 'merely' a good one. Here are a few other symphonies, all of them better in my opinion than anything Ries wrote that you might enjoy. Some of them have already been mentionned by others.....

    - Mendelssohn's symphony No.4
    - Farrenc's symphony No.2
    - Tchaikovsky's symphony No.6
    - Saint-Saens' symphony No.3
    - Dvorak's symphony No.9
    - Alfven's symphony No.2
    - Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherezade" (technically not a symphony, but an incredible orchestral work in four movements)
    Martha doesn't signal when the orchestra comes in, she's just pursing her lips..

  2. #17
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    A friend of mine with a degree in music told me something once about Mozart. I had initially also not been that excited about Mozart, compared to Beethoven, and thought his music only cheery, unserious fluff. My friend related to me a conversation he had with a professor, who said that you start and end with Mozart. Mozart is great for starting classical music appreciation, because he seems light and simple and easily enjoyable. Then you feel you have to move on to weightier matters - Beethoven, Brahms, Mahler, Schoenberg, etc. And then after a while, you revisit Mozart, and once you have that musical appreciation, you come to realize that there is, in fact, more to Mozart. Great depth. Genius compositions. It isn't all fluff. There is a lot of serious stuff (and not just the Requiem).

    But to each their own. Brahms and Beethoven are also incredible.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Dim7's Avatar
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    So which of Mahler's compositions have you listened to and what do you think about them so far?

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    Was just browsing through the forum threads and came upon this - the title caught my attention. i'm a big Beethoven and Brahms fan too - and i know EXACTLY how you feel about Mozart, cos that's how i felt for years. If it's the apparent lightness / fluffiness that you don't like in Mozart, then you should listen to his Great Mass in C minor, which sounds like a great gothic cathedral. And his Piano Concerto No. 20 in D minor, which i swear has sections that sound almost like Beethoven. The Requiem too, of course. And his sonatas for piano and violin (i've got the recording by Uchida / Steinberg) - perfect depressing music for cold rainy days when you just want to curl up at home with a steaming cup of hot chocolate and wallow in non-work-related reading.

    Am starting to appreciate the rest of Mozart a lot more now - maybe it's age catching up with me, but i'm no longer so dismissive of apparent lightness and "fluff" as i used to be.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Fabulin's Avatar
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    To me the closest to evoking the feelings that Beethoven's music does are the symphonies of Emilie Mayer (1812-1883). Not for nothing was she called weiblicher Beethoven (female Beethoven) back in the day.

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    Senior Member Kjetil Heggelund's Avatar
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    Just like Brahms

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    Charles Gounod dubbed Saint Saens "the Beethoven of France". Saint Saens was something of a style bender, who wrote in many different styles, sometimes switching styles for different movements of the same piece.

    Although his 3rd symphony is the only one that gets much attention, the 2nd symphony sounds much more similar to Beethoven, particularly in the 1st movement.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mj7PyZ1hzE&t=791s

    I personally love every symphony he wrote, with Urbs Roma being my favorite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallefred View Post
    I don't know a lot about music. All I know is that these two composers are the two who consistently work for me. I can't identify what it is about them that does that, although if I had to put it into words I guess I would say that they're very stimulating- they're loud and bouncy and they keep me on my toes.

    I've heard people comparing Mozart and Beethoven, but honestly I have always found Mozart to be exceptionally dull. When I listen to his music I find myself drifting away, and all it gives me is a headache. Whereas with Beethoven and Brahms I can't tear myself away, and always find myself waving my arms in time to the music. They completely blow me away. There is one piece by Mozart that I really, really like. Requiem, which is my favorite musical piece. But then that's not really Mozart, is it?

    Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone could recommend some other composers that have the same feeling as the one that Brahms shares with Beethoven but Mozart does not? I don't know what it is. Just for the record, I'm discussing symphonies here. I haven't gone through any of their other music (with the exception of Beethoven's string quartets- didn't like them) because I don't have the time or the patience to spend months looking for music. But if you recommend a piece in another genre I'll give it a shot.

    I've already tried Haydn, Mahler, Bach, Vivaldi, Pergolesi... maybe a few others. Bach had some choral stuff I liked, although the frequent solos drove me crazy- I think I would have loved St. Matthew's Passion if not for them, and considered deleting them to see how it sounded. I think Vivaldi's Four Seasons was decent, and I liked Pergolesi's Stabat Mater, although it wasn't quite what I was looking for. Hope that helps.

    Any help would be appreciated.
    Mahler's 1st symphony - second movement.
    Sibelius 5th symphony - finale.

  10. #24
    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    Well, the OP is long gone. To answer the question for future generations, maybe Antonín Dvořák? He wrote in a lot of the same genres as Beethoven and Bach and in something of a similar manner. He also studied with Brahms I believe.

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    CHERUBINI His string quartets are easily comparable to Beethoven's.

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    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamencosketches View Post
    Well, the OP is long gone. To answer the question for future generations, maybe Antonín Dvořák? He wrote in a lot of the same genres as Beethoven and Bach and in something of a similar manner. He also studied with Brahms I believe.
    Definitely meant to say Brahms there, not Bach...

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    Englishwoman Ethly Smyth was an acolyte of Brahms; her chamber music, Serenade in D and Concerto for violin, horn & orchestra all bear the classic-romantic imprint of Brahms. I don't know much about the rest of her stuff but it probably is similar in construction, style and mood.

    I think the composer most akin to Beethoven that came after him -- though fellows like Ferdinand Ries tried to copy his style -- was Mendelssohn. His "Lobgesang" symphony is clearly modeled after Beethoven No. 9 and the impatience in his Mozart-like piano concertos also reflects early and middle periods Ludwig van. Their violin concertos are similarly mirrors of each other.

    While Mendelssohn was of a much lower voltage personality there are many other parallels in their works, one being the comparison of Mendelssohn's oratorio Elijah to Beethoven's oratorio Christ On the Mount of Olives. The temperament of Mendelssohn's string quartets is like middle Beethoven, as well.

    There are no other comparisons between the two I know but 8 of Anton Bruckner's 9 numbered symphonies begin with a cadence similar to Beethoven 9. I think this probably more just the influence Ludwig had going forward in the 19th century.

    I don't find much in Mahler that reflects Beethoven but there would never have been a Mahler "Resurrection" symphony without Beethoven 9, one of the most influential pieces of music in western civilization.

    There are people that say the Symphony No. 1 of Robert Simpson has the electric charge of Beethoven. I understand that but wouldn't recommend anyone looking for Beethoven 150 years later to look for it in Simpson.
    Last edited by larold; Aug-02-2019 at 22:30.

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    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larold View Post
    There are no other comparisons between the two I know but 8 of Anton Bruckner's 9 numbered symphonies begin with a cadence similar to Beethoven 9. I think this probably more just the influence Ludwig had going forward in the 19th century.
    I haven't heard all of Bruckner's symphonies, but of those I've heard, that is so true. He definitely took the 9th symphony of LvB as a springboard for his entire symphonic output. Given that, I think it's amazing that he never wrote a choral symphony!

    Mahler is about as far from Beethoven as a symphonist can get (while remaining a good symphonist), but one could also say he took Beethoven's 9th as a springboard for most of his big symphonies.

    Good call on Mendelssohn, and I would also like to add Robert Schumann as a composer whose symphonies are somewhat Beethovenian, as are some of his piano works, although in the end he was an individual through and through.

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    George Onslow string quartets and string quintets are a real treat, written around the same time too.

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    Senior Member DaveM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kjetil Heggelund View Post

    Just like Brahms
    This could have been a Brahms lost symphony , particularly in the Largetto that starts at 10:00. Note the Brahmsian sequence at 12:25.
    Last edited by DaveM; Aug-03-2019 at 19:02.

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