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Thread: Questions (help) and presenting myself

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    Default Questions (help) and presenting myself

    Hey there

    I love music of many genres and not long ago I decided to sing, I just felt this sudden urge that I should try and see how far I could get. I always felt that I had it within me, well I knew I had the attitude, I just believe in myself and I don't expect too much of myself at the same time so I won't get sad.

    I am of Swedish (50%), Bolivian (25%), Irish (12½%) and Japanese (12½%) descent and I turned 18 on the 3rd of August this past summer. When I was younger I remember I used to love singing as if I was an Operah singer and I remember I did it fairly good. I used to copy the way Jimmy Carrey sang the operah-like "piece" from the movie Cable Guy (I could do it at the exact same level, and I went really high).. Anyway as I got older I stopped and my ability was sort of lost but I still had it within me(so I thought). I only sang like a female oprah singer once in a while and not as often as when I was younger, so I always felt comfortable there. I laugh like a girl but I try not to.. when I sing I feel most comfortable in the higher notes. It's kind of hard to determine whether I am a tenor or alto, if not a barionette or whatever you call it, the bass especially after the moment I knew how to cross the two without a problem (learned this recently, I think, maybe I knew it already, I don't remember for sure, but it came naturally, thats for sure after I got my head voice question answered) but I have tryed to find out. I get pure head voice at like 380hz and at about 345hz I feel a slight vibration in my chest and I feel the sound in my head, so I that must be my blending (mix voice), where I break off, and I hear thats where alto switch gears. Thats when I try to ignore the things that make the switching gears unnoticable so I could determine this) Well I can also go deep, like at 90hz..

    Well I always wanted to sing but recently I just felt like I needed to learn how to sing (I usually get these obsessed interests a lot in my life and get good at it (I have a hard time staying with one thing if I stop being fed information or I see no progress), I think it's because of ADHD, I hope I'm not sounding too pompous, or too full of myself). I am really good at agressive inline skating, love doing martial arts, love learning but its hard to concentrate but I can only do well, or really well when I get really interested like this has caught my attention (there seem to be no limit in singing). This happened just about a week ago and I went looking for advise on the net all day long for days and days until this day, I will do the same tomorrow and the next days and stayed up late also listening to music and singing. So then I learned more and more about singing and became aware of a lot of things. Today I got the best of all, Singing Success with Brett Manning so now I'm really going to learn how to sing without destroying my voice. Anyway as I went through the internet I stumbled upon different things and eventually got a pitch program that could record me so I could hear myself as well as tell me what pitch the note is at. Because I couldn't understand all this note talking I was reading so hz and feeling how high I sang was the only correlation I could make between the two. I can go upwards and hit everything but I can't name them yet..

    Well I intended to ask just one question but got caught up in my reason why I wanted to sing... but it's probably good to know my age and a little about me so that you can understand me more etc. Unfortunately I got lost in my thinking and typing so I forgot the rest of the questions. I'll add the questions and new ones later when I remember them again. I'll begin with what I intended to ask.

    As I read more I realised and felt (also heard) that I could travel between chest voice and head voice without a problem (I think, maybe someone can tell me I'm wrong). So since I realised I could go from speaking voice (around 120-150hz) to my highest at around 880 rather easy without strain, above starts to get difficult. Well I have gotten better, and it has and I have realised more techniques (I may sound stupid when I'm writing this since I am a complete beginner compared to everyone else) such as bending my knees, making smiley faces, bending over etc for the harder/higher notes. I also hear you should also turn your head upwards when going for the high notes. I got really confused lately because I could stabalize my larynx pretty well but as I got above 800-880hz it started to get impossible not to pull ur larynx up. Sometimes even making a hole in my throat, I believe this is VERY VERY bad but thats because I'm using the wrong techniques and I won't strain myself like that again (sometimes cracking inwards, yes REALLY bad). Well if I look upwards on these notes that doesn't happen... I have read and also seen people bend forward, looking upwards etc when singing the extremes. I havent tryed bending over when singing on high notes and not really explored looking up either, yet.. Well I am happy I got the Brett Manning coarse because now I know I won't kill my voice because I will gain proper training, hopefully. Anyway so I go from around 150hz to about 1075hz (I have done 1225, and like 2550 but donno how I got there), but most often around 900hz. YES I am very bad at naming notes, and usually very lazy as well when it comes to naming things in general. Well I can reach the same notes with crazy strain as I mentioned, the throat going inwards and without that happening but I just need to learn how to control my instrument better...

    I realised that I should make a new paragraph... well for what ever reaons I concluded it would be good if I had a piano to sing to, but I have none. So I went looking for free ware.. So I stumbled upon a flash piano at one point. This one--->

    Question inside:

    http://numbera.com/musictheory/piano.aspx

    So as soon as I started, I just felt the A was out of tune, compared to the other ones (I had read about perfect pitch and was wondering to what extent that is).. and it just felt wrong when I noticed it. Then eventually I asked other people if it was in tune because my first thought was I'm a beginner and I just probably cant hit the note with my voice. As I sang the lowest A on that piano I got a the same note above or something, I don't remember at what frequency it was since it was two days ago or so. A friend who knows how to play the trumpeth a little bit said it seemed wrong. So I tryed copying the second A, the one at 440hz according to wikipedia (I also felt the second and third were the same so I copied the second). So I copied it with my voice and got exactly 441.000hz according to this program I use. Well since I had become extremely curious about music in general I had stumbled upon the two words "perfect pitch". Just a few minutes ago I listned to a guy attempting to break the world record for the highest note for men, a record he made himself. So he got to like a very high pitch, and the guy who had perfect pitch hearing said it was a C# at that level beyond the C8. So I copied what I heard at that pitch to a lower frequency since I didn't know what a C# sounded like and got the same (C#). So one of my questions were, is perfect pitch only being able to name something you hear, or also copying the same pitch at a different octave, or repeating it with your voice and getting the same and not naming, and if so, must it be the same to every digit, or perhaps same hz by one decimal or what ever... Naming requires you to associate the pitch with sound, and if you are born with such a skill and didn't know the names of the notes it would be impossible to tell, thats why I am confused.. I'm not asking, "Do I have perfect pitch?". I'm just wondering to what extent is perfect pitch. A lot of people can sing songs they hear if they got the voice in the same pitch without wrong (I think, maybe I'm wrong) so my conclusion from that is, if listening and singing what you hear, then most people have perfect pitch, and thats rare so that leads me to think that a perfect pitcher doesn't just sing what they hear but they.... what ever they do.. naming uh.. well like I said it's confusing..

    Questions:

    -Also does being coordinated in sports, balance etc. have a correlation with good singing?
    Well since I won't know for certain what class I belong to (tenor, alto etc) without having a proffesional listening to me I'll just ask for hints. Should I be able to go really low in my head voice, it starts feeling like Im in my chest but also in my head when I get that low.. maybe thats because whenever I sang it was always in my head voice (as I have discovered that is what it is called). Does laughing like a girl imply anything?
    Well my head voice doesn't always get a vibration in the head, not on the very high notes at like 800hz (when you put your hand on your head), but I do get the vibration at lower levels. Is it my falsetto up there, some confuse falsetto with head voice at higher notes when it's males because they think it's impossible for men to sing high tunes but it can be wrong a lot of the times. So those guys and/or girls who get to like 880hz in head voice and above, do you feel the vibration on your head at those notes. Btw I have heard falsetto and I dont think thats what I'm producing, well perhaps I am, we won't know for certain until I post an audio of myself.

    Well ok, Im just curious and really looking for someone I can share my enthusiasm with, some questions may seem stupid...
    I used to have lots of questions but I have solved them myself the past few days...
    More to come, hopefully..

    I'll edit my post, put more stuff (maybe my warming up from low to high later so you can tell me if I'm heading in the right direction), I think I'm writing too much crap which waste your time.. sorry for that, and sorry if I seem unclear. I have read so much about singing I even have stumbled upon khoomei singing... :P
    Last edited by jongaleo; Dec-17-2006 at 07:18. Reason: just grammar and adding things I wan't to be said

  2. #2
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    http://www.upitus.com/download.php?file=f061ffd8 4 days ago
    http://www.upitus.com/download.php?file=47f08ccf 5 days ago

    I would like to believe I'm learning fast, I can still change, and I have changed so please give what ever critiques you have about the two later files (links) of my voice. That is if I'm heading in the right direction. I know it sounds like **** at the moment, I will use more nasal or whatever to add more harmony.. I got something to learn from now, Brett Manning! Remember I'm a complete beginner and have nearly zero knowledge.. I was thinking I didn't want to share those files since I didn't think it would be fair to present myself when I sound so horrible and that I hopefully sound better/different now. But I was thinking, what the heck, it doesn't matter.. just let go!

    By the way, since I don't know much about notes I have been using this as a reference so I can tell them appart:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies
    Last edited by jongaleo; Dec-17-2006 at 20:40.

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    Senior Member Oneiros's Avatar
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    I don't know much about singing so I can't help you there, but best of luck with it! Are you interested in classical music much?

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    Well I haven't been listening to it on my spare time, but I do see the beauty in it, well the closest I come to classical music would be the singer from Russia, his name is Vitas (Bumac, in russian letters). He has got an amazing voice, especially, check this video out:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjO_VXHxsRw (with him, amazing!) You will not regret seeing it!

    Reason I went here was that I was hoping that there might be some knowledged singers here, so Classical seemed appropriate to me. Well when I come to think of it, I do like mozard and bethoven but I don't remember if there is any singing to that... I'm usually very positive to all sorts of music!

    EDIT: Thanks for the response.

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    Senior Member 4/4player's Avatar
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    Mozart and Beethoven has some singing works.

    You should listen to Beethoven's "Missa Solemis".

    Mozart: "The Marriage of Figaro"-excellent sequel to the barber of seville
    "Exsultate, jubilate, K.165"
    "Don Giovanni, K.527"
    "Ave, verum corpus, K.618"
    Let me know when you get a chance to listen to these, I'll look forward to your reactions!=)
    4/4player
    " 'Penitence!'
    'No!'
    'Penitence!'
    'No!'
    'Penitence!'
    'No!'
    'Yes!'
    'Nooooooooooo!' [Dragged down into Hell]
    - Act two: Finale of Mozart's "Don Giovanni"

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    okey, its been a very long time! heres my results!

    http://media.putfile.com/jongaleo---loving-you

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    Member tenor02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jongaleo View Post
    I have realised more techniques (I may sound stupid when I'm writing this since I am a complete beginner compared to everyone else) such as bending my knees, making smiley faces, bending over etc for the harder/higher notes. I also hear you should also turn your head upwards when going for the high notes.
    you have heard terribly wrong, dont bend your knees -- creates tension, dont make smiley faces -- spreads the ombasure and can affect pitch, and bending over is terrible for your instrument. And DO NOT turn your head upward to hit higher notes, that's a cop out for not having enough air and gives a strained sound.

    I got really confused lately because I could stabalize my larynx pretty well but as I got above 800-880hz it started to get impossible not to pull ur larynx up. Sometimes even making a hole in my throat, I believe this is VERY VERY bad but thats because I'm using the wrong techniques and I won't strain myself like that again (sometimes cracking inwards, yes REALLY bad). Well if I look upwards on these notes that doesn't happen... I have read and also seen people bend forward, looking upwards etc when singing the extremes.
    any trained singer will tell you that your form is not correct here, the cracking is called your passaggio and everybody has them. Normally you have two, a high break and a low. Do not look upward, i cant stress that enough, it strains the sound and is terrible for your voice because it creates tension in the vocal chords. Just relax, and use more air -- itll get there in time, but you cant force it...the more you force it the more you're going to hurt yourself.

    So as soon as I started, I just felt the A was out of tune, compared to the other ones (I had read about perfect pitch and was wondering to what extent that is).. and it just felt wrong when I noticed it.
    the quaitly of anything is going to affect the pitch, as well as the device that is creating it. the piano you provided is right on.

    So I copied it with my voice and got exactly 441.000hz according to this program I use. Well since I had become extremely curious about music in general I had stumbled upon the two words "perfect pitch". Just a few minutes ago I listned to a guy attempting to break the world record for the highest note for men, a record he made himself. So he got to like a very high pitch, and the guy who had perfect pitch hearing said it was a C# at that level beyond the C8. So I copied what I heard at that pitch to a lower frequency since I didn't know what a C# sounded like and got the same (C#). So one of my questions were, is perfect pitch only being able to name something you hear, or also copying the same pitch at a different octave, or repeating it with your voice and getting the same and not naming, and if so, must it be the same to every digit, or perhaps same hz by one decimal or what ever... Naming requires you to associate the pitch with sound, and if you are born with such a skill and didn't know the names of the notes it would be impossible to tell, thats why I am confused.. I'm not asking, "Do I have perfect pitch?". I'm just wondering to what extent is perfect pitch. A lot of people can sing songs they hear if they got the voice in the same pitch without wrong (I think, maybe I'm wrong) so my conclusion from that is, if listening and singing what you hear, then most people have perfect pitch, and thats rare so that leads me to think that a perfect pitcher doesn't just sing what they hear but they.... what ever they do.. naming uh.. well like I said it's confusing..
    you are confusing relative pitch to perfect pitch. perfect pitch is being able to identify the name of a specific note given the sound without being given any other note to have based their assumption off of (such as the root of a chord). It would be like me walking to a paino, playing a pitch and you being able to tell me exactly what note name that is (e flat, f etc..) As to people being able to recite songs- that has to do with tonal memory, some people can carry a tune they have heard for a few seconds, others for a few hours; however given enough time they will probably forget the key that the song is placed in. That doesnt mean they cant sing it back, the intervalic relationship of the notes will be the same, however it will probably be in a different key. Google "Relative vs Perfect Pitch"

    [quote-Also does being coordinated in sports, balance etc. have a correlation with good singing?[/quote] no, unless you have an abnormally large lung capacity. Singing is a unique motor skill.

    Well since I won't know for certain what class I belong to (tenor, alto etc) without having a proffesional listening to me I'll just ask for hints. Should I be able to go really low in my head voice, it starts feeling like Im in my chest but also in my head when I get that low.. maybe thats because whenever I sang it was always in my head voice (as I have discovered that is what it is called). Does laughing like a girl imply anything?
    you sound like a baritone/tenor2 from what i can tell in your recording. The use of falsetto (your high voice) distorts that because we cant really hear where your breaks are.

    Well my head voice doesn't always get a vibration in the head, not on the very high notes at like 800hz (when you put your hand on your head), but I do get the vibration at lower levels.
    it's normal. the falsetto uses a different set of vocal chords that are placed differently.

    Is it my falsetto up there, some confuse falsetto with head voice at higher notes when it's males because they think it's impossible for men to sing high tunes but it can be wrong a lot of the times. So those guys and/or girls who get to like 880hz in head voice and above, do you feel the vibration on your head at those notes. Btw I have heard falsetto and I dont think thats what I'm producing, well perhaps I am, we won't know for certain until I post an audio of myself.
    from what i can tell your in falsetto for a decent part of your song that you posted -- "when you slide through the door" is all in falsetto, the rest sounds a little high for you as the pitches are wavering a good bit (sliding into and out of tune) and they arnt clearly defined in some spots.

    Best advice i can get to you- spend the money on a voice teacher and go from there.
    Good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jongaleo View Post
    Hey there

    I love music of many genres and not long ago I decided to sing, I just felt this sudden urge that I should try and see how far I could get. I always felt that I had it within me, well I knew I had the attitude, I just believe in myself and I don't expect too much of myself at the same time so I won't get sad.

    I am of Swedish (50%), Bolivian (25%), Irish (12½%) and Japanese (12½%) descent and I turned 18 on the 3rd of August this past summer. When I was younger I remember I used to love singing as if I was an Operah singer and I remember I did it fairly good. I used to copy the way Jimmy Carrey sang the operah-like "piece" from the movie Cable Guy (I could do it at the exact same level, and I went really high).. Anyway as I got older I stopped and my ability was sort of lost but I still had it within me(so I thought). I only sang like a female oprah singer once in a while and not as often as when I was younger, so I always felt comfortable there. I laugh like a girl but I try not to.. when I sing I feel most comfortable in the higher notes. It's kind of hard to determine whether I am a tenor or alto, if not a barionette or whatever you call it, the bass especially after the moment I knew how to cross the two without a problem (learned this recently, I think, maybe I knew it already, I don't remember for sure, but it came naturally, thats for sure after I got my head voice question answered) but I have tryed to find out. I get pure head voice at like 380hz and at about 345hz I feel a slight vibration in my chest and I feel the sound in my head, so I that must be my blending (mix voice), where I break off, and I hear thats where alto switch gears. Thats when I try to ignore the things that make the switching gears unnoticable so I could determine this) Well I can also go deep, like at 90hz..

    Well I always wanted to sing but recently I just felt like I needed to learn how to sing (I usually get these obsessed interests a lot in my life and get good at it (I have a hard time staying with one thing if I stop being fed information or I see no progress), I think it's because of ADHD, I hope I'm not sounding too pompous, or too full of myself). I am really good at agressive inline skating, love doing martial arts, love learning but its hard to concentrate but I can only do well, or really well when I get really interested like this has caught my attention (there seem to be no limit in singing). This happened just about a week ago and I went looking for advise on the net all day long for days and days until this day, I will do the same tomorrow and the next days and stayed up late also listening to music and singing. So then I learned more and more about singing and became aware of a lot of things. Today I got the best of all, Singing Success with Brett Manning so now I'm really going to learn how to sing without destroying my voice. Anyway as I went through the internet I stumbled upon different things and eventually got a pitch program that could record me so I could hear myself as well as tell me what pitch the note is at. Because I couldn't understand all this note talking I was reading so hz and feeling how high I sang was the only correlation I could make between the two. I can go upwards and hit everything but I can't name them yet..

    Well I intended to ask just one question but got caught up in my reason why I wanted to sing... but it's probably good to know my age and a little about me so that you can understand me more etc. Unfortunately I got lost in my thinking and typing so I forgot the rest of the questions. I'll add the questions and new ones later when I remember them again. I'll begin with what I intended to ask.

    As I read more I realised and felt (also heard) that I could travel between chest voice and head voice without a problem (I think, maybe someone can tell me I'm wrong). So since I realised I could go from speaking voice (around 120-150hz) to my highest at around 880 rather easy without strain, above starts to get difficult. Well I have gotten better, and it has and I have realised more techniques (I may sound stupid when I'm writing this since I am a complete beginner compared to everyone else) such as bending my knees, making smiley faces, bending over etc for the harder/higher notes. I also hear you should also turn your head upwards when going for the high notes. I got really confused lately because I could stabalize my larynx pretty well but as I got above 800-880hz it started to get impossible not to pull ur larynx up. Sometimes even making a hole in my throat, I believe this is VERY VERY bad but thats because I'm using the wrong techniques and I won't strain myself like that again (sometimes cracking inwards, yes REALLY bad). Well if I look upwards on these notes that doesn't happen... I have read and also seen people bend forward, looking upwards etc when singing the extremes. I havent tryed bending over when singing on high notes and not really explored looking up either, yet.. Well I am happy I got the Brett Manning coarse because now I know I won't kill my voice because I will gain proper training, hopefully. Anyway so I go from around 150hz to about 1075hz (I have done 1225, and like 2550 but donno how I got there), but most often around 900hz. YES I am very bad at naming notes, and usually very lazy as well when it comes to naming things in general. Well I can reach the same notes with crazy strain as I mentioned, the throat going inwards and without that happening but I just need to learn how to control my instrument better...

    I realised that I should make a new paragraph... well for what ever reaons I concluded it would be good if I had a piano to sing to, but I have none. So I went looking for free ware.. So I stumbled upon a flash piano at one point. This one--->

    Question inside:

    http://numbera.com/musictheory/piano.aspx

    So as soon as I started, I just felt the A was out of tune, compared to the other ones (I had read about perfect pitch and was wondering to what extent that is).. and it just felt wrong when I noticed it. Then eventually I asked other people if it was in tune because my first thought was I'm a beginner and I just probably cant hit the note with my voice. As I sang the lowest A on that piano I got a the same note above or something, I don't remember at what frequency it was since it was two days ago or so. A friend who knows how to play the trumpeth a little bit said it seemed wrong. So I tryed copying the second A, the one at 440hz according to wikipedia (I also felt the second and third were the same so I copied the second). So I copied it with my voice and got exactly 441.000hz according to this program I use. Well since I had become extremely curious about music in general I had stumbled upon the two words "perfect pitch". Just a few minutes ago I listned to a guy attempting to break the world record for the highest note for men, a record he made himself. So he got to like a very high pitch, and the guy who had perfect pitch hearing said it was a C# at that level beyond the C8. So I copied what I heard at that pitch to a lower frequency since I didn't know what a C# sounded like and got the same (C#). So one of my questions were, is perfect pitch only being able to name something you hear, or also copying the same pitch at a different octave, or repeating it with your voice and getting the same and not naming, and if so, must it be the same to every digit, or perhaps same hz by one decimal or what ever... Naming requires you to associate the pitch with sound, and if you are born with such a skill and didn't know the names of the notes it would be impossible to tell, thats why I am confused.. I'm not asking, "Do I have perfect pitch?". I'm just wondering to what extent is perfect pitch. A lot of people can sing songs they hear if they got the voice in the same pitch without wrong (I think, maybe I'm wrong) so my conclusion from that is, if listening and singing what you hear, then most people have perfect pitch, and thats rare so that leads me to think that a perfect pitcher doesn't just sing what they hear but they.... what ever they do.. naming uh.. well like I said it's confusing..

    Questions:

    -Also does being coordinated in sports, balance etc. have a correlation with good singing?
    Well since I won't know for certain what class I belong to (tenor, alto etc) without having a proffesional listening to me I'll just ask for hints. Should I be able to go really low in my head voice, it starts feeling like Im in my chest but also in my head when I get that low.. maybe thats because whenever I sang it was always in my head voice (as I have discovered that is what it is called). Does laughing like a girl imply anything?
    Well my head voice doesn't always get a vibration in the head, not on the very high notes at like 800hz (when you put your hand on your head), but I do get the vibration at lower levels. Is it my falsetto up there, some confuse falsetto with head voice at higher notes when it's males because they think it's impossible for men to sing high tunes but it can be wrong a lot of the times. So those guys and/or girls who get to like 880hz in head voice and above, do you feel the vibration on your head at those notes. Btw I have heard falsetto and I dont think thats what I'm producing, well perhaps I am, we won't know for certain until I post an audio of myself.

    Well ok, Im just curious and really looking for someone I can share my enthusiasm with, some questions may seem stupid...
    I used to have lots of questions but I have solved them myself the past few days...
    More to come, hopefully..

    I'll edit my post, put more stuff (maybe my warming up from low to high later so you can tell me if I'm heading in the right direction), I think I'm writing too much crap which waste your time.. sorry for that, and sorry if I seem unclear. I have read so much about singing I even have stumbled upon khoomei singing... :P
    I'm a classical/ Opera Singer and after having read your post, I strongly recommend that you go to a great classical voice coach who can answer many of your questions and teach you correct vocal technique. While Jim Carey is a trained singer who knows what he is doing,the technique that you talked about in your post in one that is called racking the vocal cords which for a trained singer like Jim Carey, he can create this technique in such a way that it doesn't damage his vocal cords, but for an untrained singer like yourself copying his technique will definitely permanently damage your vocal cords and leave you hoarse sounding for the rest of your life, never singing again. It takes years and years of formal classical vocal training to become an opera singer and not just singing for the fun of it.

    It sounds like you have copied one bad technique after the other and this isn't good. If you are serious about singing then stop copying all of these bad techniques, leave the Brett Manning course alone because as an untrained singer without meaning too you will try to emulate Brett Manning and because there isn't proper placement this will cause a vocal cord rack and possibly permanent vocal cord damage which is irreversible, definitely break down and spend some money to take voice lessons from a great classical voice coach.

    Think of it this way, would you just start picking up a violin with no training and copying bad violin techniques from the internet to compete against Maxim Vengerov the greatest Russian Violinist of our times in a world wide Violin Competition-you know you wouldn't so why would you decide to destroy your voice by copying bad vocal techniques.

    Best of luck to you in your search for a vocal coach

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