Banner: The symphonic suite Cantabile

Page 1 of 86 123451151 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 1290

Thread: The TC 150 Top-Recommended Symphonies

  1. #1
    Senior Member emiellucifuge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,931
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default The TC 150 Top-Recommended Symphonies

    This thread is the daughter of the TC 100 Opera thread currently active in the Opera subforum:
    TC Opera 100

    If you dont wish to click on the link, here is a brief outline:
    - the TalkClassical members who like orchestral music and symphonies can reach a concensus on the top 100 symphonies
    - it should lead to some interesting debate and discussion as it has done in the Opera thread
    - the list may be used as a starting point for newcomers to the world of orchestral music

    Again, some people dislike lists and polls. I understand and respect this but please refrain from posting your criticisms here. This idea has been tried and tested, and active discussion and positive participation is underway currently in the Opera subforum - I hope we can foster a similar enviroment here and finish with a result that does not displease too many.

    Before i start with the nomination procedures, I will allow you all some time to make comments or suggestions, but also to gauge the level of participation i can expect.

    Let yourselves be heard!

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Littlehampton, England, UK
    Posts
    1,440
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I am relieved you have called it 'Top Recommended Symphonies' instead of 'Best' symphonies. I contribute regularly in another type of forum where there are countless 'which is best' type questions that drive us serious music lovers to state of advanced despair.

    I would be happy to participate, mostly because any list of nominations I put forward would probably include some important but underrated works deserving of wider currency. What I would be dismayed to see was a list that simply reiterated the 100 FAVOURITE symphonies. 'Favourite', 'famous' and 'well known' don't always equate to high quality. There are some desperately overplayed symphonies (some great, some not so great) and anything which helps perpetuate this sad state of affairs would not be applauded by me.

    I have worked in the classical music business for more than 30 years now and have fought long and hard to coax people to listen beyond what they 'know' (after all, they knew NOTHING once!). Therefore, any forum which draws attention to great works (in this case symphonies - something of a 'speciality' of mine) can only be a good thing.

    You have my vote!

  3. #3
    Senior Member emiellucifuge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,931
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Im glad,

    Obviously we are striving to create a list which is representative and therefore should include many symphonies which may be considered over-popular, but nevertheless occupy an important place in the repertoire.
    A great number of posters at TC display a great deal of knowledge so im fairly confident we can get an intelligent list also, rather than what you describe. And yes I hope we can smuggle in some under-appreciated works! I know i have a few im eager to see included.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Almaviva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,427
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default

    I don't know enough about symphonies to participate meaningfully, I'll probably just learn from the specialists. I do know opera a lot more and I've been an active participant of the top-recommended operas thread. Yes, the choice of the word "recommended" was a matter of debate there and fortunately has prevailed, since "best" is a subjective and misleading label. What we did in the other thread is to propose those operas that the opera forum members as a group "recommend" which makes a lot more sense.

    The way we have proceeded in the opera thread is by considering chunks of ten. So for 1-10 each member would nominate 5 and then scores would be attributed to their relative position (1=5 points, 2=4 points, etc), and we'd give two days for the membership to get their nominations in. Then points would be tallied and the first chunk of 10 would be established, with additional tie-breaking votes if necessary. Some operas with high number of points that still didn't make it to the top 10 would then automatically qualify for the next chunk (11-20) while others with low points would be discarded (but nothing prevents members from nominating them again for the next chunk). Then we'd consider the next chunk with a couple already qualified, and the remaining spots would be decided by another round of five nominations. I hope it's not too confusing, people can consult the opera thread to see how it's being done (we're currently working on the 21-30 chunk).

    OK, so, I guess I'd still like to participate at least once and then step back and learn from you guys, so, from a quasi-lay person's perspective Beethoven's 9th and 5th and Tchaikowsky's 5th would get my 1-2-3, then Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique would be my 4, and Mahler's 6th would be my 5.
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  5. #5
    Senior Member joen_cph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cph, Denmark
    Posts
    5,061
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Interesting subject. There´s a problem though as regards the more exotic repertoire of symphonies, many won´t have a chance of listening to symphonies that haven´t been much recorded, and people don´t have the same references ... I suggest at least that people are given some time to reflect during the process - to re-hear some works or even obtain works previously unknown to them ... And that the results aren´t produced too much in a hurry.
    100 is a large number though, and gives space to some lesser known works / the preferences of only a few people, I guess ...

  6. #6
    Senior Member emiellucifuge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,931
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Well as Almaviva noted, we generally give two days for each bracket and there is much space in between for conversation and debate. These debates could arguably be used to 'lobby' your choices or to raise awareness.

    On the other hand, do exotic symphonies that have hardly been recorded hold a valid claim to a top 100 recommended list?

  7. #7
    Senior Member joen_cph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cph, Denmark
    Posts
    5,061
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Sorry, I overlooked the two days mentioned by Almaviva.

    Works like Tubin V, Langgaard X or Hovhaness "St. Vartan" are immediately striking and romantically attractive also melodically - and it seems partly a matter of chance that they have only been recorded 2 -3 times, though perhaps influenced also by the fact that the general public after all has a naturally limited appetite for the number of new works / continous repertoire expansion ...

    I´d find it a pity if composers such as these would be drowned in cascades of, say, early Haydn- or -Mozart-symphonies, which have been recorded much more ... This also applies to more recent repertoire like, for instance, Rochberg, Carter, Sessions, Schnittke etc., to mention some ...

    Luckily, there´s also quite a lot available of the repertoire available on you-tube now.

    Perhaps one could limit the number of symphonies to, say, 5 per composer ... ??? And introduce a minimum of, say 15, from 20th century ???
    Last edited by joen_cph; Nov-09-2010 at 16:57.

  8. #8
    Senior Member emiellucifuge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,931
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Im willing to discuss these limits and quotas further, but believe the opinions of others should be heard as well.

    In any case i sympathise with your cause and would likely vote for some of the symphonies you have mentioned, albeit at a low stage in the list. If one other person were to vote with us it would most likely be enough to guarantee their selection.

  9. #9
    Senior Member joen_cph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cph, Denmark
    Posts
    5,061
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Of course, am open to other opinions.

    Would have to think whether the ones I named are the best among those of the composers mentioned; as regards Langgaard, IV and VI are also some possible candidates to choose from; was just putting forward some general thoughts ... :-)

  10. Likes MusicSybarite liked this post
  11. #10
    Senior Member emiellucifuge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,931
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Sorry yes! I meant i would be likely to vote for symphonies by the composers youve mentioned.

    Ill probably also put forward something by Penderecki and Lutoslawski.

  12. #11
    Senior Member SuperTonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,521
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    First, let me say that this is a great idea, and I plan on participating.

    Instead of saying that we should include a certain number of works from the modern era, why don't we say that each bracket needs at least one representative from the 3 major eras with symphonic literature (classical, romantic, modern/postmodern). I leave out Baroque because the symphony as we know it today didn't come about until the Classical era, but of course that is open to discussion.
    The problem I see however is that some composers/works are "on the bubble" in terms of what stylistic era they belong in. Does Beethoven and Schubert belong in the Romantic or Classical eras? Or what about Rachmaninoff and Sibelius who composed symphonies well into Modern era but belong stylistically more with the Romantic era?
    I think we need to come to agreement on issues like this before we proceed. Or maybe it is just easier to not have any quotas, or limits on what works can be nominated in any given bracket.

  13. #12
    Senior Member World Violist's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,334
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default

    I don't think there should be restrictions on era or anything like that. It would ruin the whole premise, which is the top recommended symphonies. It isn't the top recommended symphonies provided there are 15 modern, 40 romantic and 45 classical. It's just what symphonies we think should be on the list. It would also eliminate the need for arguing about it. I see no reason to put in "quotas" (though I do agree with limiting to 5 per composer, so Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven don't unreasonably dominate the list as they'd be sure to otherwise...).

    I'm in.
    You get a frog in your throat, you sound hoarse.

  14. #13
    Senior Member emiellucifuge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,931
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Almaviva View Post
    I don't know enough about symphonies to participate meaningfully, I'll probably just learn from the specialists. I do know opera a lot more and I've been an active participant of the top-recommended operas thread. Yes, the choice of the word "recommended" was a matter of debate there and fortunately has prevailed, since "best" is a subjective and misleading label. What we did in the other thread is to propose those operas that the opera forum members as a group "recommend" which makes a lot more sense.

    The way we have proceeded in the opera thread is by considering chunks of ten. So for 1-10 each member would nominate 5 and then scores would be attributed to their relative position (1=5 points, 2=4 points, etc), and we'd give two days for the membership to get their nominations in. Then points would be tallied and the first chunk of 10 would be established, with additional tie-breaking votes if necessary. Some operas with high number of points that still didn't make it to the top 10 would then automatically qualify for the next chunk (11-20) while others with low points would be discarded (but nothing prevents members from nominating them again for the next chunk). Then we'd consider the next chunk with a couple already qualified, and the remaining spots would be decided by another round of five nominations. I hope it's not too confusing, people can consult the opera thread to see how it's being done (we're currently working on the 21-30 chunk).

    OK, so, I guess I'd still like to participate at least once and then step back and learn from you guys, so, from a quasi-lay person's perspective Beethoven's 9th and 5th and Tchaikowsky's 5th would get my 1-2-3, then Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique would be my 4, and Mahler's 6th would be my 5.
    I believe we first nominated operas believed to be worthy of the no. 1 spot and then drew personal rankings from these.

    Personally, im against restricitions too. I think we have a good number of posters so far with interest in more recent works that quotas wont be necessary. One suggestion though, some discussion may be necessary to ensure you organise your votes together. Otherwise youll probably each nominate different symphonies which then dont make it with only 1 vote.

  15. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    668
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I would like to join in. I've heard lots of symphonies and have my preferred ones. If it's a list of members' favourites I don't see any justification in imposing restrictions on the number of symphonies by composer or era.

  16. #15
    Senior Member emiellucifuge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,931
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Of course anyone is welcome to join

Page 1 of 86 123451151 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Here Is My Classical Music Collection
    By JTech82 in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: Oct-04-2017, 22:28
  2. My Classical Collection - Updated
    By JTech82 in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: Apr-06-2015, 11:43
  3. My Classical Collection - Updated
    By Mirror Image in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: Dec-23-2010, 19:40
  4. My Classical Collection - Updated 6-13-09
    By Mirror Image in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: Aug-09-2010, 16:27
  5. Top 100 Symphonies - predict the results
    By GraemeG in forum Orchestral Music
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: Sep-28-2009, 02:03

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •