Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 27 of 27

Thread: Scriabin and the Symbolist Aesthetic

  1. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Suburbs of Montreal
    Posts
    2,708
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I've uploaded a pdf version with much larger print, see my earlier posts!
    Earlier posts? I see nothing..just your tiny document. Ar you a spy? LOL

    Martin

  2. #17
    Senior Member MJTTOMB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    336
    Post Thanks / Like

  3. #18
    Senior Member Rasa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,246
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Gave it a proper read now.


    What I find a bit lacking in p4-5 is a clear defenition/description of the literary movement and this transposes to musical symbolism. You give a few properties of symbolic literary works, but not really cover the matter of "symbols" per se. p5-6 this very well: exoticism -> new harmonical constructs illustrate very well in regards to a very specific subject. Especially since you refer a few more times to the "symbolist aesthetic" and "ideology"


    p7 "though tritones are not uncommon." This seems like a dangerous statement to me. It would be fairly easy to argue that the whole whole-tone scale sound is partially based upon the frequent appearance of the tritone

    I like the observation on p11 concerning triplet vs duplet to break apart meter. I'd dare say that rythm is no longer used for pulsation, but is directly in function of tone colour (in polyrthmic passages)

    In part 2 it would be particularly nice to illustrate the use of symbols by showing them in multiple instances in the same work. It's easy to say it's there, it's hard to show the analysis.


    Overall a nice smooth read. Good job.

    did you submit this for a degree/publication?

  4. #19
    Senior Member norman bates's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,444
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    i'm very curious about the relation of the music of Debussy and Scriabin. I've read that the only known comment made by Scriabin on Debussy is something like "He shouldn't have stolen from our Russian music". There were russian musicians that predates the music of the french composer?
    And Debussy knew about Scriabin?

  5. #20
    Newbies
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I like the idea of the "Ecstasy Motive" (oscillating tritone). What is interesting is that it is often used as a common tritone between mystic scales (p. 15, Poeme-Nocturne--the Db and G mystic scales share the TT f-cb), and octotonic scales (p. 15, Op. 74 III---the set of octotonic scales starting on c, eb, f#, and a share the TT c-f#), so it can indeed build intensity by remaining constant as the scales change around it.

  6. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    14,039
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by norman bates View Post
    i'm very curious about the relation of the music of Debussy and Scriabin. I've read that the only known comment made by Scriabin on Debussy is something like "He shouldn't have stolen from our Russian music". There were russian musicians that predates the music of the french composer?
    And Debussy knew about Scriabin?

    Noting it's been over a year since you posted this, have you found answers?

    Not having read a Scriabin biography, and relying only on a few online sources, I came up empty on any Debussy/Scriabin relationship and quotes.

    Wikipedia lists Tchaikovsky, Balakirev, Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin, and Mussorgsky as Russian influences on Debussy's music. The first four being minor, and Mussorgsky more so for Boris Godunov influence on Pelleas et Melisande.

    Scriabin visited and resided in Paris between 1898 and 1907, so I would think they knew of each other.

  7. #22
    Senior Member lextune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    467
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by norman bates View Post
    i'm very curious about the relation of the music of Debussy and Scriabin. I've read that the only known comment made by Scriabin on Debussy is something like "He shouldn't have stolen from our Russian music". There were russian musicians that predates the music of the french composer?
    And Debussy knew about Scriabin?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaneyes View Post
    Noting it's been over a year since you posted this, have you found answers?

    Not having read a Scriabin biography, and relying only on a few online sources, I came up empty on any Debussy/Scriabin relationship and quotes.

    Wikipedia lists Tchaikovsky, Balakirev, Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin, and Mussorgsky as Russian influences on Debussy's music. The first four being minor, and Mussorgsky more so for Boris Godunov influence on Pelleas et Melisande.

    Scriabin visited and resided in Paris between 1898 and 1907, so I would think they knew of each other.
    Scriabin and Debussy never met, but Scriabin attended a performance of La Mer conducted by Debussy. Scriabin also owned a copy of the score.

  8. Likes Vaneyes liked this post
  9. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    417
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by suli View Post
    I like the idea of the "Ecstasy Motive" (oscillating tritone). What is interesting is that it is often used as a common tritone between mystic scales (p. 15, Poeme-Nocturne--the Db and G mystic scales share the TT f-cb), and octotonic scales (p. 15, Op. 74 III---the set of octotonic scales starting on c, eb, f#, and a share the TT c-f#), so it can indeed build intensity by remaining constant as the scales change around it.
    The 7th chords Db and G are also substitutes for each other. They do share a common triton, and a triton can always be resolved by contrary motion to either a 3rd or a 6th.

    you can also always move a sequence through the cycle of minor 3rds, too. You come out where you begin, just like with diminished scales

    also, since we can add the dominant before any chord, tritons can move up and down by a half step. Consider the cycle of 5ths progression A7 | D7 | G7 | C7

    you could capture that harmonic motion with a simple triton (C#, G) -> (C, F#) -> (B ,F) -> (Bb,E)

  10. #24
    Junior Member Valjuan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    An excellent article on this topic is Scriabin's Symbolist Plot Archetype in the Late Piano Sonatas by Susanna Garcia. Totally changed the way I listened to Scriabin.

  11. Likes Vaneyes liked this post
  12. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    14,039
    Post Thanks / Like

  13. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    14,039
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Valjuan View Post
    An excellent article on this topic is Scriabin's Symbolist Plot Archetype in the Late Piano Sonatas by Susanna Garcia. Totally changed the way I listened to Scriabin.
    Those interested in this article can access it by Googling "Scriabin, Susanna Garcia", then clicking on the first PDF link.

  14. Likes Valjuan liked this post
  15. #27
    Junior Member Valjuan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaneyes View Post
    Those interested in this article can access it by Googling "Scriabin, Susanna Garcia", then clicking on the first PDF link.
    Thanks, I should have done that with my post.

  16. Likes Vaneyes liked this post
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •