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Thread: Carlos Kleiber voted greatest conductor of all time

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polednice View Post
    I wondered whether to post this, having read the magazine a few days ago, but I thought everyone might be a bit sick of lists

    Still, even from what I've seen, I agree that Carlos Kleiber is simply astounding, and is mesmerising to watch.
    I personally rate his father as the better one: Erich Kleiber. The problem's a the sound quality of the recordings, not the quality of them.

    Regards,

    Vincula

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    Senior Member Allegro Con Brio's Avatar
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    I don’t get it. I just don’t get it. He gave us an excellent Brahms 4, some sizzling Beethoven, a couple great opera recordings, and an unremarkable pairing of Schubert symphonies. That’s it. What am I missing? I don’t dislike him at all, but I seriously want to know who started this tradition of calling him the greatest conductor of all time who made “definitive” versions of everything he touched and who “represents the composer’s intentions.” His signature style was hard-driven, high-octane, razor-sharp, high drama. Surely he knew how to drive a band like few others. And that worked wonderfully in lots of things. But the last word? The greatest ever? I just want to know why. However, I WILL concede this - this Brahms 2, along with Klemperer and Jochum, is perhaps the greatest version of this symphony I know, and probably my favorite overall Kleiber recording:

    "If we understood the world, we would realize that there is a logic of harmony underlying its manifold apparent dissonances." - Jean Sibelius

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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegro Con Brio View Post
    I don’t get it. I just don’t get it. He gave us an excellent Brahms 4, some sizzling Beethoven, a couple great opera recordings, and an unremarkable pairing of Schubert symphonies. That’s it. What am I missing?
    I hear you - the things I've heard were good, very good, but none of them top of the heap...there's this weird worship thing that goes on...

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    Senior Member Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heck148 View Post
    I hear you - the things I've heard were good, very good, but none of them top of the heap...there's this weird worship thing that goes on...
    I don't see the problem.
    The list, as any other list, is subjective.
    If only they had listened more thoroughly to recordings of Hans von Bülow though.
    And, let's not forget, it's an old list from 2011, that's why William R. Langley wasn't mentioned.

    I once saw an interview on the Dutch telly with the either underrated or overrated Bernard Haitink. About Carlos Kleiber, he had this to say: "We are all songbirds, but there can only be one Nightingale."

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    Senior Member Rogerx's Avatar
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    Where is his biggest fan when we need him
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” ― Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegro Con Brio View Post
    I don’t get it. I just don’t get it. He gave us an excellent Brahms 4, some sizzling Beethoven, a couple great opera recordings, and an unremarkable pairing of Schubert symphonies. That’s it. What am I missing? I don’t dislike him at all, but I seriously want to know who started this tradition of calling him the greatest conductor of all time who made “definitive” versions of everything he touched and who “represents the composer’s intentions.” His signature style was hard-driven, high-octane, razor-sharp, high drama. Surely he knew how to drive a band like few others. And that worked wonderfully in lots of things. But the last word? The greatest ever? I just want to know why. However, I WILL concede this - this Brahms 2, along with Klemperer and Jochum, is perhaps the greatest version of this symphony I know, and probably my favorite overall Kleiber recording:

    I'm not a fan of the whole "greatest ever" concept in an activity as essentially subjective as music, and I wouldn't award the title to Carlos Kleiber or indeed to any other conductor. "Favourite", however, is another matter. You see, I'd describe his Beethoven 5 and, rather contrary to your estimation above, his Schubert "Unfinished" in the same terms as you apply to his Brahms 2 (which I also love) and therein, I suspect, lies a clue to his popularity, namely that he can make staples of the repertoire young again. BTW Haitink's comments elsewhere in this thread are just one example of the humungous esteem in which he's held by fellow musicians as well as enthusiastic amateurs like me. Some (perhaps including your good self - I can't entirely tell!) hold against him the fact that he left a very small recorded repertoire, but that doesn't really seem to me to be a factor if what he *did* leave us is as special as many of us have found it to be.

  8. #97
    MacLeod
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    Read the whole article, including all the choices of the 100 conductors polled and all becomes clear.

    If you just go on media reports and headlines, shorn of context, you get a partial view.

    You're still entitled to wonder at the fact that Carlos Kleiber came top.

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