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Thread: Anybody know a name of this mode?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Default Anybody know a name of this mode?

    It's a pentatonic scale made from the following notes of the major scale: 1 3 4 6 7.

    It's also the 3rd mode of the Japanese Hirajoshi scale and the 4th mode of the Carnatic raga Amritavarshini. It's almost Rageshree except it doesn't have a 2nd in the avarohana (descending version).

    I ask because I like to put the mode in the title of the piece, and don't want to use an incorrect name.

    Also, as an added extra (even though I can't see anybody knowing this here), does anybody know the names of any of the other modes of Insen besides Akebono?

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    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    55 views. 0 replies.

    Why did I think anyone here would know this?

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    Senior Member Kopachris's Avatar
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    I doubt that it actually has a name. From what I found, I think the Hirajoshi scale doesn't give names to its modes--the only way to refer to different modes of the Hirajoshi scale is by what diatonic mode they correspond to.

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    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopachris View Post
    I doubt that it actually has a name. From what I found, I think the Hirajoshi scale doesn't give names to its modes--the only way to refer to different modes of the Hirajoshi scale is by what diatonic mode they correspond to.
    It doesn't have to be the Japanese name, just any name from any musical system throughout the world.

    Like the 5th mode (1 3 #4 5 7) of the Hirajoshi doesn't have a proper name in Japan, so I borrowed the name of an Indian raga with the same interval layout. Also, the In scale appears to be identical to the Kumoi scale (or is it Hon-Kumoi?).

    Has anybody read Slonimsky's Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns? That might contain some information about this.

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    Senior Member Rasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus View Post
    55 views. 0 replies.

    Why did I think anyone here would know this?
    Because you thought you could jot down any series of 5 notes and it would correspond to some historical pentatonic scale.

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    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasa View Post
    Because you thought you could jot down any series of 5 notes and it would correspond to some historical pentatonic scale.
    It does correspond to a scale. It's just that there is no clear nomenclature applied to the scale in English.

    It's not like it uses irregular interval spacings. When I use those I make up names myself.

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    Senior Member Romantic Geek's Avatar
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    AHA! I found the answer!

    It's an inversion of the Amrtavarsini South Indian pentatonic collection.

    I pulled out my professor's post-tonal book where he's got a few different pentatonic scales listed. He's listed it as 1-3-#4-5-7...but if you start on 5, you get the 1-3-4-6-7 in a major scale you've mentioned.

    You're welcome
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  10. #8
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romantic Geek View Post
    AHA! I found the answer!

    It's an inversion of the Amrtavarsini South Indian pentatonic collection.

    I pulled out my professor's post-tonal book where he's got a few different pentatonic scales listed. He's listed it as 1-3-#4-5-7...but if you start on 5, you get the 1-3-4-6-7 in a major scale you've mentioned.

    You're welcome
    Welcome to what.

    If you read my opening post I mention Raag Amritavarshini and that it's the 4th mode of it. It's the name of the actual mode I'm after, not a mode with the same interval structure. Bhopali and Durga are not the same.

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    Senior Member Romantic Geek's Avatar
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    Lol - I must have missed that sentence when I read the OP...sorry :/

    I'll keep looking then...
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    Senior Member Romantic Geek's Avatar
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    I just flipped through a huge dissertation on the South Indian raga system to no avail - though I came close, it had 5 instead of 6. It may not be documented in English. English literature on the raga system is certainly lacking. Considering there are hundreds of Indian raga - it's possible it's been overlooked.

    There's one source I want to check out in the library, which I'll do. But it isn't open today or tomorrow because of Memorial Day so it'll have to wait
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  13. #11
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romantic Geek View Post
    I just flipped through a huge dissertation on the South Indian raga system to no avail - though I came close, it had 5 instead of 6. It may not be documented in English. English literature on the raga system is certainly lacking. Considering there are hundreds of Indian raga - it's possible it's been overlooked.

    There's one source I want to check out in the library, which I'll do. But it isn't open today or tomorrow because of Memorial Day so it'll have to wait
    I think it comes down to lack of translation into English why the name for it is so obscured.. I'm thinking it might possibly be Hon-kumoi, as I use 1 b2 4 5 b6 as regular Kumoi, but that could also simply be the Japanese name for Amritavarshini. But then again Japanese scales don't seem to use the major third much so maybe it doesn't have a name over there as it isn't used much. India has so many ragas that I would have thought it would be in there somewhere.

    Maybe its a case like we have the major and minor pentatonic scales but don't really have names for the other 3 modes of that scale, yet both Hindustani and Carnatic music has names for all 5 modes of the scale.

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    Senior Member Romantic Geek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus View Post
    I think it comes down to lack of translation into English why the name for it is so obscured.. I'm thinking it might possibly be Hon-kumoi, as I use 1 b2 4 5 b6 as regular Kumoi, but that could also simply be the Japanese name for Amritavarshini. But then again Japanese scales don't seem to use the major third much so maybe it doesn't have a name over there as it isn't used much. India has so many ragas that I would have thought it would be in there somewhere.

    Maybe its a case like we have the major and minor pentatonic scales but don't really have names for the other 3 modes of that scale, yet both Hindustani and Carnatic music has names for all 5 modes of the scale.
    I'd think the lack of translation has a ton to do with it. Only 4 dissertations came up on ProQuest when I searched for Indian Raga and 3 of them were irrelevant and the 1 that was is by someone who's now dead. I recognized his name though as a big theorist of early music, Harold Powers.
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    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romantic Geek View Post
    I'd think the lack of translation has a ton to do with it. Only 4 dissertations came up on ProQuest when I searched for Indian Raga and 3 of them were irrelevant and the 1 that was is by someone who's now dead. I recognized his name though as a big theorist of early music, Harold Powers.
    Well then, Argus call it whatever the hell you want and nobody in the english-speaking world will know any better.

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    Senior Member LordBlackudder's Avatar
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    i would try yahoo answers. u often get a mixture of answers some brilliant and some not so.

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