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Tchaikovsky's symphonies: ranking, recordings and stuff

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58K views 59 replies 47 participants last post by  SONDEKNZ  
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#1 ·
I'm on Tchaikovsky kick recently so I'm starting a thread to provoke some discussion.

How do you rank his symphonies, what do you think about them in general, what recordings are your favourites?

I think that he suffers a lot from "nice" image of his music based on easy-listening ballet suites. But his after-3rd symphonies are much more modern and challenging that one would expect. They reach almost Mahler-like brutality of expression, yet always remain beautiful.

My ranking would look something like that:

1. 6th - a great, lenghty masterpiece of late romanticism with last movement being one of most stunning pieces of music of all times
2. 5th - just a little bit inferior to the 6th mainly because of it's final movement which some would call cheap and bombastic. The rest is incredible and everyone should hear the opening of slow movement with solo horn.
3. 3rd - rather underrated piece with unusual structure, first movement has a lot of smart counterpoint, the two shorter movements reveal great sense of colouristics, especially the scherzo with magical trombone part. Then the stunning finale with energetic polonaise and unforgetable chorale.
4. 4th - some weird ideas in this symphony, in first and last movements and of course in the scherzo with this pizzicato messing-around. The slow movement has something special about it and the ending, well, it's one of wildest codas in symphonic genre. CLASH CLASH BUM TRA TA TA TA DAM.
5. 1st and 2nd. Simply very good symphonies with no great revelations.

So far my number one is:

Image


Except for the 6th which is played way too fast. In this one I prefer Bernstein/NY.

The Karajan box also includes other works in first rate interpretation, especially the concertos and string serenade.

And now the stuff:

Image
 
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#2 ·
My own ranking would be as follows:

Manfred
6th
4th
5th
3rd
2nd & 1st

People may know by now that I'm just as much a Manfred fanatic as I am Brahms zealot, so it's no surprise I put it at the top, and my favourite recording is, of course, Petrenko with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic.

Image


The 6th is a very close second place for me. I still consider it one of the greatest symphonies ever written, and simply can't get enough of it. I put the 4th before the 5th mainly because I am utterly in love with its first movement - the sheer dramatism, and seemingly never-ending return of complete despair is precisely to my tastes! :D

I don't yet have favourite recordings of most of the other symphonies, but for the 4th I think the best is probably Gennadi Rozhdestvensky and the LSO.
 
#3 ·
I've heard the Manfred Symphony, but I cannot recall it.

My favorite list:
6
4
3 - I'm glad you like this one too, Aramis! I love the scherzo.
5
2
1

I cannot offer any recording suggestions, because I actually don't own a single symphony. :eek: Radio has been good enough exposure, I've heard all 6 there.
 
#5 ·
On the list in my sig, the forum ranked the symphonies thus:

6
5
4
Manfred
3

The other two didnt place. Do you agree with this ranking. Why and why not?
 
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#6 ·
I'm not too familiar with Manfred so I'll leave it out.
6
4
5
3
1
2

I had trouble deciding whether to put 4 or 5 in the second place, but I went with this because I enjoy the entirety of No. 4, while there are parts of the 1st and 4th movements of No. 5 that I enjoy less than the inner movements. Of course No. 6 had to come first, almost entirely because of its last movement. I love how the loud, fast 3rd movement leads directly into the melancholic finale that just kind of fades out at the end. No. 3 came before the first two for reasons mentioned above, and No. 1 beat No. 2 simply because of the wonderful melodies in the 1st movement.

I have the Mehta+LAPO cycle, but it's not nearly Russian enough. I wish I had a very Russian set, and for this I'm considering Temirkanov and Rozhdestvensky. Any suggestions for the most Russian cycle?
 
#7 ·
IMO Tchaikovsky was capable of great symphonic orchestration. Not particularly for application of small choirs, like Mahler or R. Strauss, whose music can sound 'gimmicky' if you haven't been paying attention, but rather for solo/duo parts contrasted with large/multiple choirs, that exude Romantic emotion.

The finale of the 6th expresses defeat without surrender In the most powerful manner I have heard anywhere in music.

The 1st is an interesting, pleasant journey; it calms troubled spirits.

The pizzicato movement in the 4th annoys me greatly.

:cool:
 
#8 ·
I think Tchaikovsky is a composer I still haven't really got yet. I've listened to his 5th and 6th symphonies a few times recently, and still haven't clicked with them. I think I am starting to see some of the brilliance in the 6th, but I'm listening to the last movement of it right now, and can't say I'm grasping THAT much out of it. There is some tasteful instrumentation and it does sound good, but I don't hear the super powerful musical statement others are professing this piece of music contains ...I've never really clicked with his violin concerto either. The only Tchaikovsky that instantly appeals to me is his 'easy' stuff - the Nutcracker Suite, Swan Lake etc. I also quite enjoy his Romeo and Juliet overture.
 
#11 ·
I beg to differ: very well recorded 'analogue' (= warmer than digital) Concertgebouw acoustics with all instruments clear & in depth on their place. Mravinsky has splitted up first and second violins, so the stereo effect is strong, but the depth of the recording is a bit wanting...
 
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#12 ·
I'm actually in hospital at the moment - nothing too serious; they're just starving me of food for three days :rolleyes: - but to keep my mind of the discomfort, I've just been listening to Tchaikovsky's 6th, inspired by this thread. More than any other piece of music I know, this symphony transports my simultaneously to thoughts of me past, and thoughts of my future - nothing exciting, just the thought of actually existing in the past and future - and it allows me to completely detach from the present moment. Wonderful.

Oh, and shame on all you fools who are not familiar with Manfred. :p
 
#13 ·
I strongly disagree with your ranking of the first symphony Aramis. The first symphony is perhaps the most inspired of them all to me, though it is not structurally as impressive as the later ones. The finale of the first gives me shivers and that's rare in music. I just have a special thing for the first, its much more substantial than the second(which is nice), and much more exciting than the third, and much more inspired than the fifth. The 4th and 6th are more impressive, but the first has a special place for me. The Manfred is just different.
 
#60 · (Edited)
I too very much enjoy Tchaikovsky's 1st Symphony - particularly the haunting Adagio Cantabile Ma Non Tanto - and also rate it ahead of its siblings, the 2nd, 3rd and Manfred.

My favorite:

Image


That said, am I alone in finding some of the passages in the 1st movement just a wee bit repetitive?
 
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#21 ·
6 (Ashkenazy)
4 (Ashkenazy)
Manfred (Pletnev)
5 (Ashkenazy)
No real preference between 2 (Slatkin) and 3 (Rilov) probably because I haven't heard them as often as the four above.

For my sins I've never heard the first one.

I'm perfectly happy with the recordings I have but I admit to having had my eyes on Mravinsky's DG stereo recording of 4-6 for some time.
 
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#22 ·
6
4
1
5
(not familiar with 2 and 3)

6 is the only one I enjoy throughout. I think 4 suffers from an insincere last movement, but the rest of it, particularly the 2nd movement is genius. 1 is underrated, though the second half isn't quite up to par as the first. And 5 I just don't like at all- it's like the last movement of 4 except spread out for 50 minutes. The only bit of it I can appreciate is the slow movement, which is well constructed, but still not nearly as gorgeous and sincere as his other slow movements.
 
#23 ·
Nix said:
6
4
1
5
(not familiar with 2 and 3)

6 is the only one I enjoy throughout. I think 4 suffers from an insincere last movement, but the rest of it, particularly the 2nd movement is genius. 1 is underrated, though the second half isn't quite up to par as the first. And 5 I just don't like at all- it's like the last movement of 4 except spread out for 50 minutes. The only bit of it I can appreciate is the slow movement, which is well constructed, but still not nearly as gorgeous and sincere as his other slow movements.
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I'm glad someone else likes his first as much as I do! The second movement is absolutely gorgeous! Actually, your list is probably the exact same as my list, with 2 and 3 in that order at the end.
 
#25 ·
I don't believe anyone here has mentioned Tchaikovsky's 7th Symphony in Eb, as reconstructed by Semyon Bogatryev. It's a melodic work, enjoyable listening, if not up to the epic sweep of the 5th which is probably my personal favorite because of its structure (variants of the "fate" motif in the several movements). I used to own the Columbia LP of the 7th with Ormandy-Philadelphia but can't seem to locate it now, but I have the CD with Jarvi-London Philharmonic. As to the 6th, I'm not partial to it but the movement in 5/4 time is of interest.
 
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#30 ·
I would have thought that several of Tchaikovsky's symphonies are among the most easily accessible of all the more famous symphonies.

I used to like Tchaikovsky a great deal when a lot younger. Tchaikovsky certainly knew how to pack lots of emotion into his works. I still return to his works occasionally but whenever I do so I rather tend to get that feeling that much of it is now a bit too slushy, sentimental, tear-jerking for my present tastes. On the other I can't think of any better composer for writing material in this fashion, if that's what you like.

I happened to hear an excellent version of Tchaikovsky's Symphony No 5 at this year's Proms, by the Pittsbugh Symphony Orchestra conducted by Manfred Honeck. I thought it was one the best Prom performances I've heard this year, with especially good brass sections. I see that the whole of that Prom (together with Beethoven's PC No 4) is being repeated on BBC Radio 3 later today.
 
#37 ·
Artemis said:
I would have thought that several of Tchaikovsky's symphonies are among the most easily accessible of all the more famous symphonies.

I used to like Tchaikovsky a great deal when a lot younger. Tchaikovsky certainly knew how to pack lots of emotion into his works. I still return to his works occasionally but whenever I do so I rather tend to get that feeling that much of it is now a bit too slushy, sentimental, tear-jerking for my present tastes. On the other I can't think of any better composer for writing material in this fashion, if that's what you like.

I happened to hear an excellent version of Tchaikovsky's Symphony No 5 at this year's Proms, by the Pittsbugh Symphony Orchestra conducted by Manfred Honeck. I thought it was one the best Prom performances I've heard this year, with especially good brass sections. I see that the whole of that Prom (together with Beethoven's PC No 4) is being repeated on BBC Radio 3 later today.
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That's where Pittsburgh went this year. I love those guys! They have been at Lanaudiere just north of Montreal a couple of times. They are great - a crowd favorite. I hope they come back.

As for Tchaikovsky - I do not count Manfred as it is really a large tone poem.

6
4
5
1
2
3

6 is maybe the best ever written by anyone. The finale is THAT good. So sad and yet beautiful.

4 is very awesome too with that powerful Brucknerian first movement. The contrast of that beautiful sinewy oboe solo that begins the second movement is so seductive. The pizzicato 3rd movement is pretty unique. The finale is an explosion of mania. The best musical expression of a manic episode I have ever heard. It really makes me think that Tchaikovsky may have been bipolar.

Best recordings of these? Muti's early Philharmonia recordings are very good - but I really like Mravinsky's 4th. Solti's 4th is my favorite though- better modern sound and still a very crazed finale. I have always loved the old Szell recording of the 5th despite that woodwind missed note in the finale. The only more modern recording that I like nearly as much is Maris Janson's. That recording almost never got released! For the 6th I still like the old Guilini recording best.
 
#31 · (Edited)
My ranking :

5 : Mravinsky is very good but the best I've heard is Silvestri conducting The Philharmonia Orchestra in 1954 (I have it on LP with Borodin Prince Igor Overture)

6 : Kempe with Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, 1951 (?) and Mravinsky with Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra, 1956

4 : Stokowski

3 : Svetlanov

2 : Svetlanov

I don't know the first and I've heard Manfred but ...
 
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