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Thread: Why do I like Bach, but not Mozart or Beethoven?

  1. #61
    Member CaptainAzure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regressivetransphobe View Post
    It means you got good taste,
    Five stiff little digits should be administered to the side of your head squire.

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    Senior Member TxllxT's Avatar
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    I think, that first one should answer the question within the Bach family: do you like Johann Sebastian but not his sons? From Johann Christoph (who already turned 'classical' be it on the bright side) you get quickly the link to Mozart.

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    Member CaptainAzure's Avatar
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    I am going to be quite forthright here and say that if you do not care for Mozart then you shouldn't be here in fact to say you don't like Mozart suggests that you should have difficulty opening doors and keeping your tongue from hanging from your jowels as you must have suffered some serious head trauma.

    I do not trust a man who says he does not care for Mozart. It can only mean two things. Either he is a liar or wishes to be odiously controversial for the sake of it.
    Such a man has no defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TxllxT View Post
    I think, that first one should answer the question within the Bach family: do you like Johann Sebastian but not his sons? From Johann Christoph (who already turned 'classical' be it on the bright side) you get quickly the link to Mozart.
    Are you kidding? Even I wouldn't consider that to be a reason for liking Mozart: the mere fact that one of JSB's sons was around at the same time as Mozart! Good heavens.

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    Senior Member crmoorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapkaara View Post
    In other words, we missed the point?
    I thought it was an interesting discussion. I should probably point out the hypocrisy in taking time out to chastise people for wasting their time and then giving an answer to the OP which is basically 'How the hell should I know?' Not exactly helpful either, but I think that if a bit of common sense is applied and question not taken too literally, it would be obvious that the OP was looking for some suggestions and was certainly happy enough to receive some.

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  8. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAzure View Post
    I am going to be quite forthright here and say that if you do not care for Mozart then you shouldn't be here in fact to say you don't like Mozart suggests that you should have difficulty opening doors and keeping your tongue from hanging from your jowels as you must have suffered some serious head trauma.

    I do not trust a man who says he does not care for Mozart. It can only mean two things. Either he is a liar or wishes to be odiously controversial for the sake of it.
    Such a man has no defense.
    You may be right but I put it down to youthful ignorance in a large number of cases. Many of these people are obviously in the first flush of acquiring any useful knowledge about classical music.

  9. #67
    Senior Member crmoorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAzure View Post
    I am going to be quite forthright here and say that if you do not care for Mozart then you shouldn't be here in fact to say you don't like Mozart suggests that you should have difficulty opening doors and keeping your tongue from hanging from your jowels as you must have suffered some serious head trauma.

    I do not trust a man who says he does not care for Mozart. It can only mean two things. Either he is a liar or wishes to be odiously controversial for the sake of it.
    Such a man has no defense.
    Quite forthright, indeed. It did make me chuckle though. :P

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    Senior Member Vesteralen's Avatar
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    I remember an acquaintance of mine back in the 1980's who slept through a Mozart piece at a symphony concert he attended. He was no classical music veteran, by any means, but he did kind of like the lusher, romantic repertoire. He said he found Mozart to be boring and predictable.

    I've been at some rather uninspired Mozart live performances myself, so I'm guessing he must have experienced one of those. But, I've also heard some truly great Mozart in concert.

    Last year I had the chance to hear my favorite Mozart symphony (#39 - I'm a sucker for the key of E-flat) done by my hometown orchestra with both the first and last movement repeats (that you seldom hear on disc). It was magical.

    In addition to the Clarinet Quintet and the Clarinet Concerto, other long-time favorites of mine are The Magic Flute and the "Prague" symphony.

    Now, thanks to the Brilliant Complete Mozart box, I'm getting to experience some brand new Mozart - like the String Quintets. The Minuet from the Second String Quintet has already become a favorite of mine.

    Sorry for rambling....

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    Quote Originally Posted by crmoorhead View Post
    I thought it was an interesting discussion. I should probably point out the hypocrisy in taking time out to chastise people for wasting their time and then giving an answer to the OP which is basically 'How the hell should I know?' Not exactly helpful either, but I think that if a bit of common sense is applied and question not taken too literally, it would be obvious that the OP was looking for some suggestions and was certainly happy enough to receive some.
    Yes indeed, I thought it was not a very interesting question to raise in the first place, as it is very difficult for other people to account for others' tastes. But just in case there might have been a very simple explanation, e.g. that the OP had not heard much Mozart and Beethoven, I thought it worth seeking clarification on that issue. The further information provided on this matter did not help.

    Beyond that, I was actually agreeing with a lot of what you have said. It was the answers to the question which which was not actually raised that I have objected to as being irrelevant. You are quite new here, and perhaps don't know about the cohort of Mozart-haters who lurk about this forum ready strike at the drop of a hat, with any old excuse to rehearse their standard arguments. If you don't believe me, try digging out the "Mozart: God or Garbage" thread.

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    Senior Member HarpsichordConcerto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAzure View Post
    I am going to be quite forthright here and say that if you do not care for Mozart then you shouldn't be here in fact to say you don't like Mozart suggests that you should have difficulty opening doors and keeping your tongue from hanging from your jowels as you must have suffered some serious head trauma.

    I do not trust a man who says he does not care for Mozart. It can only mean two things. Either he is a liar or wishes to be odiously controversial for the sake of it.
    Such a man has no defense.
    Way to go, Captain!

    Mozart is easily amongst my top 3 favourite composers. As far as I'm concerned, he was king when it came to the piano concerto (excluding harpsichord concertos, i.e. original instruments when first performed), and also king when it came to opera written after the Baroque, plus several other key genres that many other composers wrote after him.

    Most of the comments I came across here in TC from folks who didn't like Mozart's music appeared to suggest his music seemed "superficial" in the sense that it "lacked" the apparent complicated sounds and textures of later periods, especially the Romantic. That's just my empirical observation from what I read here.

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  17. #71
    Senior Member TxllxT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
    Are you kidding? Even I wouldn't consider that to be a reason for liking Mozart: the mere fact that one of JSB's sons was around at the same time as Mozart! Good heavens.
    You cannot deny the fact, that JSB's sons received a thorough musical education by their father. You really think that these sons were so inventive to become 'classical'?

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    I quite enjoy all three composers, but for different reasons.
    -------
    I quite like Mozart now, but it took a bit of warming up to. His music tended to sound a bit 'lightweight'. It wasn't until I heard a few of them live at a concert that I really started to appreciate his symphonies.

    The sinfonia concertante for violin & viola is still my favorite Mozart composition by far. I suggest listening to at least the first 3 min and see if it does anything for you! I love the dialogue between the violin and viola, and the way the orchestra takes over at 2:26ish just melts my heart somehow. Love this piece.
    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PEGm3R4dtU[/yt]

    His clarinet concerto is beautiful too. Perhaps listen to the first 2:30 of this, at least!
    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxgmorK61YQ[/yt]

    His Requiem is also fantastic, as linked by others

    -------
    My favorite Beethoven composition is his violin concerto. It's such a shame he only wrote one! If you only listen to one part, at least do around 4:00 to around 9:20. His violin is just majestic!
    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3e6ShLUjA[/yt]

    His 5th piano concerto has really tender moments as well. I love the 2nd movement particularly! Starts at 4:20 - see if you can make it till the end of the video and if it makes you want to listen to the next part!
    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cA8znJZ0dI[/yt]

    ---------
    Anyway, I hope sharing this wonderful music helps you maybe enjoy these two composers a little bit more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Llyranor View Post
    I quite enjoy all three composers, but for different reasons.
    Ditto.

    I quite like Mozart now, but it took a bit of warming up to. His music tended to sound a bit 'lightweight'. It wasn't until I heard a few of them live at a concert that I really started to appreciate his [music]...
    Agreed about the last sentence. Music in the live format is much more exciting for me than on a recording. In fact, I have heard many of those pieces listed above by Mozart & others, although I'm by no means a "Mozartian." I just appreciate the man's music, simple as that. I would recommend anyone who is kind of "on the fence" or "iffy" about a certain composer to just go to a concert & experience the music "in the flesh." This can give you a whole new perspective on the work in question. I was the same with Saint-Saens until I went to a live performance last year of The Carnival of the Animals - the humour and even profundity of that work really shone through at that concert.

    There were so many facets to Mozart's music, like all the great composers. A big discovery for me was his Great Mass in C, a work that sometimes gets overshadowed by the Requiem. Like the Requiem, the Great Mass was not finished, but what we have of this work (which is still almost an hour long) is 100 per cent genuine Mozart. Another one I'd add is the sublime motet Ave Verum Corpus, surely one of the man's most beautiful melodies (& here, I think my use of that "cliched" description is fully warranted). But Mozart can have "dark" moments as well, if that's what the listener values. The scene with the Commendatore sending the main protagonist Don Giovanni to hell in that opera was the first time fear was fully & unequivocally conveyed in music...

  20. #74
    Senior Member Bix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crmoorhead View Post
    Yeah, but you must ask yourself if this a reason not to ever go to the doctor's surgery? You are saying that this extreme example is full justification for never listening to a medical professional (the establishment) ever again. In practice, this would be an entirely foolish way to live your life. To believe that you know more that any number of professionals. A more proper analogy would be giving the option of a second or third opinion. Why listen to only one person's view on classical music or one man's opinion on medicine?
    I agree, this is the point I was making - there is a greater body of knowledge, but that also doesn't mean that it is the be all and end all.

    Quote Originally Posted by crmoorhead View Post
    I have a real problem with people that assume it IS snobbery and an "I know best" attitude. I am of the opinion that much of music can be seen objectively, but that people's tastes are subjective. The opinion that there is absolutely no way to evaluate music from an objective point of view to any degree is just plain wrong.
    I agree with this, regarding the evaluation of music - but I found the outright castigation by some to be a little harsh, so I used the term snobbish (perhaps wrongly).

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
    It seems to me that this thread so far has been virtually a complete waste of time because it has gone off at a tangent to the OP.

    The question wasn't "Is it OK among snobbish circles that I don't like Mozart and Beethoven, and if it is not OK what can I say to these people to reduce my embarrassment".
    Your'e right, it wasn't but thats what it degraded into.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
    To the OP the only answer that I can give to the actual question posed is that I haven't a clue why you don't like Mozart and Beethoven, but maybe you haven't yet heard enough of their works. Beyond that, I cannot account for your tastes, and nor can anyone else. I'm afraid that your attempted explanations have not clarified the problems you have experienced, at least not to me. Possibly if you give it a few more years you may change your mind, as most people do. If not, don't worry about it because there are certainly far more important things in life to worry about than this mere triviality.
    This is a good general synopsis of the opinions thusfar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
    As for all the answers and comments given on the question that wasn't raised, but which these people like to talk about nevertheless, I can only suggest they get a life, instead of coming on here on lecturing the rest of us on how much they dislike Mozart, and how it is their right to do so, all of which is utterly boring and quite pathetic.
    Members are actually lecturing on how much they do not like Mozart?!? I'm going a rootin through old posts - I like Mozart, I'd like to have a read of what they said - is there a specific post? Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by crmoorhead View Post
    I thought it was an interesting discussion. I should probably point out the hypocrisy in taking time out to chastise people for wasting their time and then giving an answer to the OP which is basically 'How the hell should I know?' Not exactly helpful either, but I think that if a bit of common sense is applied and question not taken too literally, it would be obvious that the OP was looking for some suggestions and was certainly happy enough to receive some.

  21. #75
    Senior Member crmoorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid James View Post
    A big discovery for me was his Great Mass in C, a work that sometimes gets overshadowed by the Requiem. Like the Requiem, the Great Mass was not finished, but what we have of this work (which is still almost an hour long) is 100 per cent genuine Mozart.
    The Great Mass is pretty damn good from start to finish. I was relistening to it last night. It ranks up with Bach's best, IMO. Also, as you say, it is 100% Mozart (unlike the Requiem).

    This post has prompted me to go back and relisten to a lot of Mozart now.

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