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Thread: Mahler 8, 2 parts???????

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    Question Mahler 8, 2 parts???????

    Today I received Mahler Symphony #8 in the mail, as well as Das Lied von der Erde and Aaron Copland's "What to Listen for in Music." I find it a bit strange that Mahler's Eighth, while being as fantastic and colossal a work as all his others, is divided into two "parts", rather than the usual 4-5/6 movements. I am relatively new to Classical Music, but I am wondering, is this common for a symphony to be divided into parts rather than movements, or is Mahler 8 just an exception?
    “If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.”

    -Gustav Mahler

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    You can actually divide the 8th in more sections, the second part I mean (that's what the EMI booklet for Tennstedt shows, I'll transcribe it later for you as I can't seem to find the cd right now).

    Which versions did you purchase?

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    Thank you! I purchased the version with Leonard Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic.
    “If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.”

    -Gustav Mahler

    Check out my music at Icompositions.
    http://www.icompositions.com/artists/mahlerfan

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    Er, you can't really break the second part down musically.

    mahlerfan: I think Mahler was the first to divide symphonies into parts, rather than movements, but he hasn't been the only one.

    The fifth symphony was in three parts as well: Part I is the first two movements, Part II the third movement, and Part III the last two.

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    Yes, glad you brought that up, The Mad Hatter. The Fifth is arranged in three parts, though these "parts" are still consisted of movements, whereas the Eighth seems to be just two parts, without specific movements titled with tempo markings, unlike all of his others.
    Last edited by mahlerfan; Apr-16-2007 at 01:01.
    “If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.”

    -Gustav Mahler

    Check out my music at Icompositions.
    http://www.icompositions.com/artists/mahlerfan

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    The EMI Double forte booklet presents the tracks as follows:

    Part I - Hymnus: Veni, creator spiritus
    Allegro spirituoso:
    'Veni, Creator Spiritus'
    'Imple Superna Gratia'
    Infirma Nostri Corporis'
    'Accende Lumen Sensibus'
    'Veni, Creator Spiritus'

    Part II

    Poco Adagio:
    'Waldung, Sie Schwankt Heran'
    'Ewiger Wonnebrand' - Jorma Hynninen
    'Wie Felsenabgrund Mir Zu Fussen' - Hans Sotin
    Allegro deciso:
    'Gerettet Ist Das Edle Glied'
    'Uns Bleibt Ein Erdenrest'
    'Hier Ist Die Aussicht Frei' -
    'Hochste Herrscherin Der Welt' -
    Adagissimo:
    'Dir, Der Unberuhrbaren'
    'Bei Der Liebe, Die Den Fussen' -
    'Neige, Neige, Du Ohnegleiche' -
    'Blicket Auf Zum Retterblick' -
    'Alles Vergangliche'
    'Gloria Patri Domino'

    It makes sense for me. But can't check with other recordings as this is the only original one I have. All the other 8th's in my posession come from broadcasts and rare stuff.

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    Thanks a lot, Manuel!
    “If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.”

    -Gustav Mahler

    Check out my music at Icompositions.
    http://www.icompositions.com/artists/mahlerfan

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    Senior Member Kurkikohtaus's Avatar
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    Part I is indeed continuous, but as Manuel states, Part II can be broken down into 3 sections.

    Incidentally, these 3 sections loosely correspond to the 2nd, 3rd and 4th mvmts of a standard symphony, and Adagio, a Scherzo and a Finale... loosely.


    The 1916 American premiere of Mahler's 8th, Leopold Stokowski and the Philadelphia Orchestra.

    Notice the 2nd violins on the outside, the cellos on the inside and the contrabasses behind the 1st violins. Cruicial seating for Brahms, Bruckner and Mahler (Vienna).

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    [QUOTE=Kurkikohtaus;9401]Part I is indeed continuous[QUOTE]

    With the clear exception of the Ac ' cende lumen sensibus.

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    Yes I have seen that picture before, Kurkikohtaus, very cool, though I never before noticed the different seating until what you said. Very interesting...Thanks for pointing that out!
    “If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.”

    -Gustav Mahler

    Check out my music at Icompositions.
    http://www.icompositions.com/artists/mahlerfan

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    Senior Member Chi_townPhilly's Avatar
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    One salient comment on the structure of Mahler's 8th was articulated by program annotator Michael Steinberg, who said that we'd call it an oratorio, if Mahler hadn't called it a symphony. The whole issue of nomenclature of works is interesting. My impression is that we give wide latitude to composers in this regard. What makes Berlioz' Fantastique a symphony, but Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade a "symphonic suite," other than the appelations of their creators? Das Lied has been called a "symphony disguised as a song-cycle," but if so, it's a disguise that's a virtual embodiment. Alternatively, Shostakovich 14 can be accurately enough called a "song-cycle disguised as a symphony." An instance where nobody's fooled is Lalo's Symphonie Espagnole, which is called a "concertante work for violin & orchestra," even if it contains stretches that have the feeling of a full-blown concerto.
    Last edited by Chi_townPhilly; Jul-29-2009 at 01:36. Reason: spelling

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    Along the lines of nomenclature that Chi_Town is discussin, Sibelius 7th was premiered in 1924 under the title Fantasia Sinfonica, when the work was still unpublished. It was published a year later with the final title Symphony No. 7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahlerfan View Post
    Today I received Mahler Symphony #8 in the mail, ... I find it a bit strange that Mahler's Eighth, while being as fantastic and colossal a work as all his others, is divided into two "parts", rather than the usual 4-5/6 movements.
    Two parts. Yes that is another cool thing about Mahler's 8th. I recently discovered Mahler and am really starting to love the 8th.
    Last edited by SixFootScowl; Aug-05-2016 at 17:16.
    “I would rather have questions that can’t be answered than answers that can’t be questioned.” — Richard P. Feynman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Florestan View Post
    Two parts. Yes that is another cool thing about Mahler's 8th. I recently discovered Mahler and am really starting to love the 8th.
    And there's me thinking a new member kicked this thread up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pugg View Post
    And there's me thinking a new member kicked this thread up.
    I just discovered there is a list of "similar threads" at the bottom of every thread. I see 5 listed below and 4 of them are nearly 10 years since the last post. Some of these don't come up when I Google search for TC Mahler threads.
    Last edited by SixFootScowl; Aug-06-2016 at 05:38.
    “I would rather have questions that can’t be answered than answers that can’t be questioned.” — Richard P. Feynman

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