View Poll Results: Should this subforum have its title changed to 'Opera on DVD, Blu-ray, and CD' ?

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  • Yes, CD reviews are allowed anyway, it would be less confusing

    15 71.43%
  • No, DVDs and Blu-rays still predominate, the subforum title is just fine

    4 19.05%
  • Whatever. I don't have an opinion, either way is fine

    2 9.52%
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Thread: Should we rename this subforum to include the CD category?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Almaviva's Avatar
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    Default Should we rename this subforum to include the CD category?

    A couple of members have expressed the idea that this subforum should be called Opera on DVD, Blu ray, and CD.

    When it was created, there was only a small CD thread and most contributions were aimed at DVDs and Blu-rays. After some discussion, we decided to not have CDs on the title, while allowing the CD thread to continue to thrive, and allowing people to post CD reviews together with the DVDs and Blu-rays reviews in the threads for the various composers.

    Basically, we went for the rule that CDs reviews and comments were allowed but were not the main focus of the subforum therefore CDs shouldn't be part of the subforum title.

    Lately the CD thread has been growing, now with 620 replies and 14,313 views.
    Also, many CDs got reviewed in the composers threads.

    And finally we're starting right now an effort to make CD recommendations for our top 100 operas, and then, DVD-Blu-rays AND CD recommendations for the 101-272 operas.

    While DVDs and blu-rays remain largely the object of the majority of posts here, maybe it is time to include CD as part of the subforum title.

    So please vote, and we'll take the results to the site administrator Krummhorn.

    Thanks.
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  2. #2
    Senior Member sospiro's Avatar
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    I vote yes.

    It will be one hell of a job but could we expand the individual (e.g.) Verdi on DVD & Blu-ray to include CDs?
    Ann

  3. #3
    Senior Member Aksel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sospiro View Post
    I vote yes.

    It will be one hell of a job but could we expand the individual (e.g.) Verdi on DVD & Blu-ray to include CDs?
    Secondeded.

    EDIT: Scratch that.

    What Nat said.
    Last edited by Aksel; Sep-25-2011 at 19:19.

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  5. #4
    Moderator mamascarlatti's Avatar
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    I would have a separate "Verdi on CD thread to make it easier to navigate. We'll end up with more threads but not unmanageable, I think.
    Natalie

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  7. #5
    Senior Member amfortas's Avatar
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    I didn't take part in the earlier discussions, so take my thought for what it's worth.

    Why not have a separate Opera on CD subforum? The topic is at least as rich as Opera on DVD and Blu-ray. Then there could be separate threads devoted to Verdi on CD, Wagner on CD, Puccini on CD, etc., along with a host of other CD-specific issues.

    This more clearly delineated approach might draw even more interest to the forum.

  8. #6
    Senior Member Almaviva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amfortas View Post
    I didn't take part in the earlier discussions, so take my thought for what it's worth.

    Why not have a separate Opera on CD subforum? The topic is at least as rich as Opera on DVD and Blu-ray. Then there could be separate threads devoted to Verdi on CD, Wagner on CD, Puccini on CD, etc., along with a host of other CD-specific issues.

    This more clearly delineated approach might draw even more interest to the forum.
    I think that this is taking it too far. 640 posts don't a subforum make.
    We can have strong CD threads inside the DVD, Blu-ray, *and CD* subforum, but as strong as CDs deserve to be, clearly the posts addressing them are many, many folds less frequent than the DVD and Blu-ray posts. Therefore, by artificially putting a section of the forum in equal grounds with a clearly more represented one, doesn't necessary grant this equality to the former. What makes a subforum needed is the number of posts on that topic. We have 6,430 posts in the DVD and blu-ray subforum and only 10% of them address CDs. The numbers don't lie, the two topics *aren't* in equal grounds so in my opinion they shouldn't be artificially granted equal grounds.

    This is not to say that opera on CD is not just as important as opera on DVD-Blu-ray as a matter of quality, variety, etc.

    This is to say that *here* on Talk Classical there is strong demand for a DVD-Blu ray area to accommodate more than 6,000 posts, but there is only 10% of that demand (rightly or wrongly, but it's a fact) to accommodate CD posts.

    Besides, I think we're evolving to having strong recommendation and discussion of a given opera in its various recording media (audio AND video), and separating the two would just complicate things. I'm more for integration than separation.

    Let's not make the same mistake Netflix has just made.
    Last edited by Almaviva; Sep-25-2011 at 21:42.
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  9. #7
    Senior Member amfortas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almaviva View Post
    We have 6,430 posts in the DVD and blu-ray subforum and only 10% of them address CDs. The numbers don't lie, the two topics *aren't* in equal grounds so in my opinion they shouldn't be artificially granted equal grounds.
    You make a good point, and I have to admit that I myself am more interested in DVDs than CDs.

    But you could also make the case that there aren't more CD posts partly because up to now there has been only one all-purpose CD thread, and a sense that it would be off topic to introduce any others.

    Even if the current numbers don't appear to show much demand for a CD subforum, nature abhors a vacuum. It could well be the case that, if you build it, they will come. I would imagine something similar happened with the creation of the DVD/Blu-ray subforum. Surely there are 6,430 posts there now in part because providing the venue helped spark the discussion.

    EDIT: Oh, and I just found the post where you acknowledge that the CD thread is "now approaching the number of posts that made us split the Opera forum in two when the DVD thread got to similar numbers." Ah ha!

    Quote Originally Posted by Almaviva View Post
    Besides, I think we're evolving to having strong recommendation and discussion of a given opera in its various recording media (audio AND video), and separating the two would just complicate things. I'm more for integration than separation..
    There is already a tremendous amount of separation on this forum--a wide range of threads on any number of arcane topics. That kind of informed specificity is part of the site's value. It seems strange that, with all that other meticulous demarcation, there would be no basic distinction between visual and aural media.

    OK, that was my impassioned pitch. Now I'll go faint somewhere.
    Last edited by amfortas; Sep-25-2011 at 23:04.

  10. #8
    Senior Member Almaviva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amfortas View Post
    You make a good point, and I have to admit that I myself am more interested in DVDs than CDs.

    But you could also make the case that there aren't more CD posts partly because up to now there has been only one all-purpose CD thread, and a sense that it would be off topic to introduce any others.

    Even if the current numbers don't appear to show much demand for a CD subforum, nature abhors a vacuum. It could well be the case that, if you build it, they will come. I would imagine something similar happened with the creation of the DVD/Blu-ray subforum. Surely there are 6,430 posts there now in part because providing the venue helped spark the discussion.
    To a certain degree. In the recent past and the more remote past I proposed twice that we create a subforum for ballet. It wasn't approved because there hasn't been enough ballet posts. So yes, the offer may cause the demand to some degree, but traditionally here we've been proceeding by attending to the members' demands rather than driving the members into what we see as being part of the site's mission.
    EDIT: Oh, and I just found the post where you acknowledge that the CD thread is "now approaching the number of posts that made us split the Opera forum in two when the DVD thread got to similar numbers." Ah ha!
    Yes, but there is no contradiction. While the CD thread is now getting to somewhat similar numbers, the DVD posts have increased ten folds so the imbalance is even worse than it was before. And while I acknowledged the problem with the statement that you've just quoted, it doesn't mean I share your vision for the cure. For me, the cure would be to move the CD reviews to each composer's thread (and I've said it above). My vision (which of course doesn't need to prevail, that's exactly why I started a poll) is to have a sort of database that would be opera-driven (or composer-driven) rather than medium-driven. So, like in the Opera In-Depth project, we'd have for example a thorough analysis of La Traviata (much beyond what Wikipedia provides) which would *also* include DVD, blu-ray, and CD reviews, so that a future reader would find not only a rich array of information about the opera itself, but also good expertise and good recommendations on what versions to get, both audio and video. It would be a one-stop complete info on La Traviata, rather than spreading that information over several threads.

    At one point we'd have in the not-so-near future a relatively important number of In-Depth threads for the main operas, and other operas or clusters of operas by composer would at least have their CDs and DVDs/Blu-rays reviews easily accessible in one thread.
    There is already a tremendous amount of separation on this forum--a wide range of threads on any number of arcane topics. That kind of informed specificity is part of the site's value. It seems strange that, with all that other meticulous demarcation, there would be no basic distinction between visual and aural media.
    Sure but this separation goes more by genre, instrument, etc., than by medium. After all, we're not a site specializing in recording media, but rather, we specialize in MUSIC. It's the music that drives all the rest. Whether or not an orchestra and singers provide a good rendition of the operatic music is often unrelated to whether the performance was recorded on tape, vinyl, CD, VHS, DVD, or blu-ray, not to forget the new digital formats. The music is still the music, and it is still the most important aspect, so I'd favor the organization of the site by music (meaning, specific operas or specific composers) rather than by the medium of recording. See, the current subforum is organized by composer. We say "Massenet on DVD and Blu-ray," for example (and CDs are allowed there, although they haven't been mentioned as part of the subforum title). We don't say or divide threads as "DVDs containing Massenet's music;" "blu-rays containing Massenet's music;" "CDs containing Massenet's music."
    OK, that was my impassioned pitch. Now I'll go faint somewhere.
    Once you recover from your fainting spell, do come back, because it is perfectly possible that your position will prevail over mine. On the other hand, whatever we decide here can only become reality if and when we submit it to the site administrator, and if he agrees with us. Being this a privately owned site, the democratic model of a vote is only valid to a certain degree: to inform and express a demand. But once this is done, agreement from the administration and from the owner is still necessary for any major change to actually occur. At the time when I proposed the ballet forum, I also put forward an impassioned pitch but it didn't prevail.
    Last edited by Almaviva; Sep-26-2011 at 00:31.
    "J'ai dit qu'il ne suffisait pas d'entendre la musique, mais qu'il fallait encore la voir" (Stravinsky)

  11. #9
    Senior Member Aksel's Avatar
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    I think separate CD review threads are the way to go. At least when I go looking for reviews of something, I look for either CDs or DVDs, not both. And as for DVDs and BluRays, they are both visual media, so I think it's right that the two are grouped together.

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  13. #10
    Moderator mamascarlatti's Avatar
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    I definitely prefer separate threads for each composer on visual and aural media - makes the search easier, as I'm usually searching for one or the other, not both.
    Natalie

  14. #11
    Senior Member Amfibius's Avatar
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    I voted "NO". To me the point of this subforum is to discuss opera on visual media.

    If we were going to rename the subforum to "Opera on DVD, Blu-Ray, and CD" ... we may as well rename it "Opera Recordings" since it is redundant to name every medium the recording was released in. Or you could take the opposite tack and be comprehensive - "Opera on 33rpm, 45rpm, 78rpm, 8-track, cassette tape, reel to reel, CD, SACD, DCC, Minidisc, digital downloads, VHS, Betamax, Laser disc, DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD (and other aural and visual formats not otherwise specified or not yet invented)"

  15. #12
    Senior Member MAuer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksel View Post
    I think separate CD review threads are the way to go. At least when I go looking for reviews of something, I look for either CDs or DVDs, not both. And as for DVDs and BluRays, they are both visual media, so I think it's right that the two are grouped together.
    I agree. My collection includes both video and audio recordings (more of the latter, since I started collecting back in the LP days). I'm still interested in both media.

  16. #13
    Moderator mamascarlatti's Avatar
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    So let's name it Opera Recordings. After all, that is what is being discussed here.
    Natalie

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  18. #14
    Senior Member sospiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamascarlatti View Post
    So let's name it Opera Recordings. After all, that is what is being discussed here.
    Aaaaaarrgghhh! You can be so .....



    .... sensible
    Ann

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  20. #15
    Moderator mamascarlatti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sospiro View Post
    Aaaaaarrgghhh! You can be so .....



    .... sensible

    Yep, I'm a Virgo. Sensible is my middle name.
    Natalie

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