View Poll Results: I prefer

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  • Wagner

    71 50.00%
  • Mahler

    71 50.00%
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Thread: Wagner vs Mahler

  1. #61
    Senior Member amfortas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugeneonagain View Post
    Mahler got my vote. Unfortunately I likely can't expand upon the reason because in another Wagner worshipping thread I've just had every post wiped out by moderators before the thread was locked. Dicky Wagner has special friends protecting him.
    And you wonder why you got in trouble?
    Alan

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by amfortas View Post
    And you wonder why you got in trouble?
    I didn't get in trouble.

  3. #63
    Senior Member DiesIraeCX's Avatar
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    Wagner's operas are better than any opera Mahler wrote.
    Mahler's symphonies are better than any symphony Wagner wrote.

    Forgive the facetiousness above. Real answer now, I voted in this poll quite a while ago; I voted for Mahler. Now I'd probably refrain from voting because these two composers are my favorite 19th century composers not named Beethoven (yeah, I know the majority of Mahler's symphonies are technically 20th century works, but c'mon). Whereas Woodduck finds the manic nature of Mahler's obsessive need to "contain the world" in his symphonies a negative quality (most of the time, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong), I find this all-encompassing quality to be one of the many reasons why I love his music so much. I've also told Woodduck that I find Wagner to be an unequalled overall artist, a type of genius that doesn't come around very often. I stand by that statement.

    As far as personal preference goes, my amended current vote would be "a tie". Attempting to judge these two "objectively" as possible, I'd give the edge to Wagner.
    Last edited by DiesIraeCX; May-22-2017 at 02:50.
    "No composer has been more innovative than Beethoven, he radically changed the nature and character of the music composed in the two centuries that followed his earliest works" - Charles Rosen ("The Classical Style")

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  5. #64
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    I prefer Mahler because his music foreshadowed brilliantly the bleakness, angst and human tragedy that was just around the corner....and Wagner....he wrote Notung more than music about a phallic sword, which used to be a relevant issue for me....but not so much anymore.
    Are you referring to World War I? How does Mahler foreshadow that?

    Wagner of course not only wrote about much more than a phallic sword, but he never wrote about a phallic sword at all. In any event it's a good thing that phallic swords no longer preoccupy you. They must be intensely uncomfortable.

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  7. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    Are you referring to World War I? How does Mahler foreshadow that?

    Wagner of course not only wrote about much more than a phallic sword, but he never wrote about a phallic sword at all. In any event it's a good thing that phallic swords no longer preoccupy you. They must be intensely uncomfortable.
    I don't know. A foreshadowing. His music was full of the bleakness and doom that was about to be smothering all of Europe in just a few short years, thanks to the Archduke Ferdinand disaster.

    Of course given human nature, one would have to be a fool to predict good times ahead!!
    Last edited by hpowders; May-22-2017 at 02:56.

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  9. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    I don't know. A foreshadowing. His music was full of the bleakness and doom that was about to be smothering all of Europe in just a few short years, thanks to the Archduke Ferdinand disaster.

    Of course given human nature, one would have to be a fool to predict good times ahead!!
    I agree with you about Mahler. In his Des Knaben Wunderhorn songs, many of the texts refer to soldiers and war. It's significant that Mahler chose those particular texts - it suggests that he might have sensed some political unrest in the air.
    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music." - Rachmaninoff

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  11. #67
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    I don't know. A foreshadowing. His music was full of the bleakness and doom that was about to be smothering all of Europe in just a few short years, thanks to the Archduke Ferdinand disaster.

    Of course given human nature, one would have to be a fool to predict good times ahead!!
    Bernstein was big on the "Mahler as prophet" idea. I'm skeptical. I think Mahler's own nature accounts sufficiently for the character of his music. Foreshadowing doom and gloom seems a peculiar reason to like something - but then that's me, looking for a light at the end of the tunnel that's due to collapse on me any day now.

  12. #68
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina View Post
    I agree with you about Mahler. In his Des Knaben Wunderhorn songs, many of the texts refer to soldiers and war. It's significant that Mahler chose those particular texts - it suggests that he might have sensed some political unrest in the air.

    Schubert and Schumann also wrote songs about soldiers and war.

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  14. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    Have pro-Mahler posts been culled?
    Speculating. I'm a pro-Mahler guy that voted for Wagner so culled in that sense. I doubt there is more than 1 or 2 (if even that many) votes for Wagner as a protest vote against Mahler. For the inverse, I'd bet it's a lot more.
    Last edited by bz3; May-22-2017 at 03:38.

  15. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    Bernstein was big on the "Mahler as prophet" idea. I'm skeptical. I think Mahler's own nature accounts sufficiently for the character of his music. Foreshadowing doom and gloom seems a peculiar reason to like something - but then that's me, looking for a light at the end of the tunnel that's due to collapse on me any day now.
    I think Mahler was prophetizing just about everything. His 8th symphony was utterly optimistic.

    Btw, I like Mahler's 8th the best. I have enough of that doomsday stuff in my head already.

  16. #71
    Senior Member jdec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bz3 View Post
    Speculating. I'm a pro-Mahler guy that voted for Wagner so culled in that sense. I doubt there is more than 1 or 2 (if even that many) votes for Wagner as a protest vote against Mahler. For the inverse, I'd bet it's a lot more.
    Really? who are your suspects?

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  18. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdec View Post
    Really? who are your suspects?
    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

  19. #73
    Senior Member jdec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bz3 View Post
    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
    The lady doth speculate too much, methinks.

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  21. #74
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    There need to be severe penalties for protest votes. Like being forced to listen to the finale of Mahler's 7th or the Ride of the Valkyries for three hours straight.

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  23. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florestan View Post
    I prefer both. Wagner for opera. Mahler for symphonies.
    But what if you have to choose.

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