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Thread: Barenboim's ring: a surprise...

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    Default Barenboim's ring: a surprise...

    I bought the Barenboim DVD and found some extra scenes I have never seen before: The Norns weaving the rope of destiny (very Greek indeed) and the scene where they give a potion to Sigfried to forget about Brünhilde and fall in love with Gutrune. Very new for me. Could somebody explain me if this existed in original Wagner version, and Solti, Furtwangler and other decided to skip them?

    Please help me!

    Martin

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    Senior Member Amfibius's Avatar
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    The scene where the Norns weave the rope of destiny opens Gotterdammerung. Originally it was meant to be a single opera, and not the 4 opera bore-fest that it turned out to be The purpose of those wrinkled Norns was to fill in the background of the story, which is why they repeat everything that happened in the previous 3 operas all over again. To be honest I was not aware that the Solti had omitted it ... I thought that it wasn't. I will have to go check again.

    As for the scene where Siegfried was given the potion ... that is central to the plot of Gotterdammerung and I would be surprised if it was omitted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amfibius View Post
    The scene where the Norns weave the rope of destiny opens Gotterdammerung. Originally it was meant to be a single opera, and not the 4 opera bore-fest that it turned out to be The purpose of those wrinkled Norns was to fill in the background of the story, which is why they repeat everything that happened in the previous 3 operas all over again. To be honest I was not aware that the Solti had omitted it ... I thought that it wasn't. I will have to go check again.

    As for the scene where Siegfried was given the potion ... that is central to the plot of Gotterdammerung and I would be surprised if it was omitted.
    I was speaking about Siegfried all the time. Thank you for your information.

    Best

    Martin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amfibius View Post
    The scene where the Norns weave the rope of destiny opens Gotterdammerung. Originally it was meant to be a single opera, and not the 4 opera bore-fest that it turned out to be The purpose of those wrinkled Norns was to fill in the background of the story, which is why they repeat everything that happened in the previous 3 operas all over again. To be honest I was not aware that the Solti had omitted it ... I thought that it wasn't. I will have to go check again.

    As for the scene where Siegfried was given the potion ... that is central to the plot of Gotterdammerung and I would be surprised if it was omitted.
    I have the Solti version and those scenes are not included.

    Martin

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    Those scenes are in almost every version. I believe one of the Furwanglers had cuts (Rai?) not sure.

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    Senior Member AndyS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myaskovsky2002 View Post
    I have the Solti version and those scenes are not included.

    Martin
    I have the libretto of the Solti version in front of me just now and I can assure you that these scenes are there

    One of the Furtwanglers had cuts but it was the La Scala one

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    I have the libretto of the Solti version in front of me just now and I can assure you that these scenes are there

    One of the Furtwanglers had cuts but it was the La Scala one
    I'm sorry to tell you that you are mistaken. Those scenes are not in any of my versions: Solti, Krauss, Futwängler (Alla Scala). I verified very exhaustively before answering you

    Please verify again.

    Martin

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    Senior Member SiegendesLicht's Avatar
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    I'm not sure about Fürtwangler and Krauss but these scenes cannot be missing from Soltis's CD. The Norns in the Prologue to Götterdämmerung are there and the scene where Gutrune gives Siegfried Hagen's magic potion is there.

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    Moderator mamascarlatti's Avatar
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    If I have read the OP's post correctly he says the Norns (not Gutrune) give Siegfried the potion.
    Natalie

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    Senior Member SiegendesLicht's Avatar
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    Hmmm... I thought "they" refers to Gutrune and Hagen.
    Last edited by SiegendesLicht; Mar-07-2012 at 08:40.

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    Of course Hagen/Gutrune give the potion to Siegfried, not the Norns. There have been (very few) productions that have skipped the norns, but I don't know of any that have been recorded and released. Certainly none of the 20+ Götterdämmerungs that I own (including Solti, Krauss '53 and Furtwängler '50) skip it. I doubt that any production ever cut the potion scene, it would make no sense dramatically.

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    Senior Member Amfibius's Avatar
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    I just checked with my Solti - the Norn scene is definitely there. It is on CD 1, track 1 (Vorspiel), 2:24 in - "Welt Licht leutet dort?". Not on track 2, as you might expect. In fact I am listening to it now I don't have the Krauss or the Furtwangler so I can't verify those.
    Last edited by Amfibius; Mar-07-2012 at 04:58.

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    I APOLOGISE. I'm completely mixed up and absent minded....I had finished Siegfried (It is kind of short by the way) and because I've never seen Götterdämmerung...I was thinking all along that it was still Siegfried! I am so stupid! Forget about the scenes....They exist but in Götterdämmerung not in Siegfried!

    I'm sorry again.

    P.S. About people saying that these scenes are included in Solti's Siegfried...They were dreaming like me....LOL


    Mille excuses!
    ¡Discúlpenme!
    Prostitie pazhalsta
    Entschuldigen sie

    Martin

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    Martin is a good guy...a bit stupid though ...Please forgive him.

    Nikolai Myaskovsky

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    Senior Member Amfibius's Avatar
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    You were told twice that the Norn scene is in the opening to Gotterdammerung :P Ah well, never mind!!

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