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Schumann's symphonies

45K views 122 replies 65 participants last post by  RobertJTh 
#1 ·
I've always had a special affinity for Schumann's symphonic cycle, one that is popular but never mentioned among the greatest of the genre. I think it deserves much better. The superb melodic invention of the cohesiveness of the forms are for me quite evident. It's probably one of my favorite complete cycles, and I have a few versions of it. I have the Bernstein (DG), Dohnanyi (Decca), Solti (Decca), plus 3 and 4 by Harnoncourt and Kubelik, and 4 by Furtwangler. I just acquired the Sawallisch (EMI). Am I missing any great ones? Anybody else here who loves this music as much as I do?
 
#36 ·
thanks Pugg.
It's probably true that:
“Of all the major symphonies, I’d say that Schumann’s are best performed by a slightly smaller ensemble… With a lean string section – not only in size, but also in its quality of playing – the music just works.”

In youtube one can find a short video devoted to every symphony by Nézet Séguin.

If anyone has listened to these interpretations please write.

Thanks
 
#37 ·
For a number of years I understood that there were classical music lovers who were not really fans of Schumann's symphonies.
I never shared that view and very much like a 4 of the symphonies.
I have complete sets of the 4 symphonies by:
Sawallisch / Staatskapelle Dresden
Szell / The Cleveland Orchestra
Foster / Czech Philharmonic
Ceccato / Bergen Philharmonic Orchestra

Also have a few individual symphony recordings. No.4 by Klemperer and No.4 by Furtwangler.
 
#41 ·
Any comments/ opinions on Mahler's revised orch. versions of the 4 Schumann symphonies? I enjoy the Chailly/ Gewandhaus recordings of the Mahler versions, however, I've listened to the Bernstein recordings for years - I'm not saying the edited version is better more that the contrast is interesting.
 
#42 ·
I prefer the fourth with Mahler's re-orchestration, because sometimes it can get a bit muddy with Schumann's original. But I greatly prefer the other three in their original forms.
 
#44 ·
The Barenboim set is amazing. It's my go-to for Schumann symphonies should I catch the inspiration.

Way too much is made of Schumann's orchestral skills. He's completely fine. His symphonies, while not among the greatest in the genre, are still wonderful when judged on their own. His 1st is really fun, youthful, and lively. His 2nd (third completed) it his best, in my opinion. The Rhenish is solid, showing some inventiveness in the format. His 4th (originally his second completed) is also worth your time, although probably my least favorite of his.
 
#45 ·
Love all the Schumann symphonies. The little heard revised version of the 4th is interesting. One can see poor Robert struggling yet again with orchestration etc. Still prefer his orchestrations to the Mahler revised orchestrations. So much for Mahler being the supreme orchestrator.
Has anyone noticed the opening notes of Schumann's 3rd are the same notes in reverse to the beginning of Brahms' 3rd.
 
#47 ·
I know this is supposed to be a thread about the conductors of Schumann's symphonies, but I rarely can follow directions. I'd like to mention a little almost-symphony by Schumann - his Op 52 Overture, Scherzo and Finale, written in the same year as his 1st symphony. Supposedly Schumann was originally going to call it his 2nd symphony. I'm not sure why it doesn't get included in collections of his symphonies, but it doesn't. It's a bit light weight but is a delightful work (in my opinion). I can't recommend a particular performance.
 
#51 ·
#55 ·
I've always liked the Third especially. Learned it on a '60s recording borrowed from my local public library -- but never remembered the artists. Really liked the scherzo, which was taken at the measured pace which I always associated in my mind with the smoothly flowing Rhine. So when I bought my first recording, it happenedf to be Bernstein/NYPO, and was totally freaked out by a scherzo that sounded more like an 8-man scull heading towards the finish line. I haven't heard a real lot of other interpretations, but fast scherzi tend to be the norm -- and that turns me off. Can anyone recommend a good performance with a more flowing scherzo that doesn't sound like a sewing machine?
 
#56 ·
I've always liked the Third especially. Learned it on a '60s recording borrowed from my local public library -- but never remembered the artists. Really liked the scherzo, which was taken at the measured pace which I always associated in my mind with the smoothly flowing Rhine.
Sym #3/II is a Landler - a folk dance from Austria, SO Germany - in 3/4 time [3 bts/bar]...it is not supposed to be as fast as a scherzo - 3/4 -1 beat/per bar...I know Schumann labels it a scherzo, but it's really a "Landler"
I don't recall Bernstein/NYPO being excessively fast in this mvt.
 
#61 ·
My favourite is the 3rd.

Sets I own: Gardiner; Harnoncourt; Konwitschny; Sinopoli; Solti; Zinman.

I actually think they are all very good! (I was contrasting this feeling with that in regard to the available Schubert sets: a very different situation in my opinion). I grew up with the Solti, so have a nostalgic attachment. If I had to pick one, it would be between Konwitschny and Sinopoli.
 
#66 ·
Never knew Mahler re-orchestrated these!

What are the biggest changes he made? More "colorful"? Any textural differences? Is it leaner overall?
I can't stand Mahler's re-orchestrations of the first three- the fourth I can tolerate, I don't know why- but I prefer it in it's original form anyways. Schumann's rough orchestration overall contribute more to the musicality and emotion of the symphonies in my opinion.
 
#69 ·
They were probably mentioned already, but this Sawallisch set is an absolute must, imo. I was never a big fan of those works before hearing this recording, but they changed everything.
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#70 ·
Listening this morning to a half recorded Prom from July (Bernard Haitink, Chamber Orchestra of Europe) I thought at first I was listening to Mozart until the slow movement, when I realised that he was either much more interesting than I'd previously found him...or it wasn't Mozart. Then the pedestrian final movement confirmed it - this was not Mozart, so I was not surprised to hear the announcer confirm it was Schumann's 2nd Symphony. Worth revisiting the adagio, but not so keen on the rest.

BTW, the orchestra played the scherzo from Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's Dream, a piece I'd only ever heard the first few bars of (as a musical cue to a production of the play I was in) so had never heard the marvellous flute solo towards the end. Fantastic!
 
#71 ·
I thoroughly enjoy Haitink's Schumann with the Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam on Philips (1990). Great performances. The recording is excellent. I particularly enjoy the soundstage on these recordings. The image places you about 10-15 feet behind Haitink.
 
#73 ·
I have the 4 Symphonies by Sawallisch/Dresden, I like them but find them a bit staid, perhaps. I just bought Janowski's 2 & 4 with the RLPO for 25p in a charity shop, not expecting much. So a nice surprise when I found them to be very good. They are lively versions, maybe preferable to Sawallisch (though haven't listened to Sawallisch in a while, so I need to do some serious comparing...) I then just had to buy Janowski's 1 & 3... not 25p... but still a bargain on ebay... The Penguin 1999 guide give 1 & 3 a rave review, suggesting the pacing is most convincing, with an "inspirational pull" like Karajan's. That's what I heard in 2 , and somewhat in 4. Also, an esteemed amazon reviewer seems to like the set.
 
#75 ·
Karajan's Vienna 1987 Live Schumann 4th (DG) was the one that got me interested in Schumann's orchestral works. There is a kind of special sonorous quality about it. The beginning of the 1st movement repeat is quite magical. However I do not hear the same sonority in his other recordings. (Perhaps it was due to the wind instruments used by the Wiener Philharmoniker?)

I find Berlin 1957 (EMI) the most expressive.

Berlin 1971 (DG) is precise and brilliant but the recorded sound is terribly squeaky.

Dresden 1972 Live (DG) is at times leaner and meaner. Recorded sound is dated, but still listenable.

The only problem I have is that Karajan always took a view in the finale that is grander (and slower!) than most other conductors, which I do not find much affinity with.

These days I prefer listening to the less recorded 1841 version of the 4th. It sounds more volatile, more free-flowing, and shorter! Rattle/Berlin, Gardiner/ORR, Harnoncourt/COE (not the one with Berlin which played the 1851 version) are all good in their own rights (but with their own idiosyncrasies as well!).
 
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