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Metal and Classical: What is the connection?

128K views 262 replies 103 participants last post by  Andante Largo 
#1 ·
Why is it that a lot of converts to classical music begin their journey in heavy metal? I could be overstating the case, of course, but this seems to be a pattern.

I've nothing against heavy metal (or any other kind of metal), but it would be more logical for popular music converts to come from the art rock/electronica genre (some of which can be admittedly "heavy"). Or am I not listening to metal "correctly"?
 
#2 ·
Certain genres of metal have some pseudo-classical borrowings I suppose. Furthermore alot of metalheads think it gives them some kind of "intellectual cred" to listen to classical music, elevating them firmly above the great unwashed who listen to "inferior" genres like rap and pop.

Every classical forum has the token metalhead who tries to convince everybody of the artistic genius of metal music, lol.
 
#69 ·
The best answer.

The other answer is 'The Masons'!

Well, If you want to constantly praise your glorious Metal music and consider it as equal and artistic as classic music get back to your hundreds of Metal websites/forums. Keep these few classic music forums away from these maniacs and/or satanists plz.
 
#3 ·
Why is it that a lot of converts to classical music begin their journey in heavy metal?
Because it's a little bit less crappy music than rest of popular stuff and therefore most of those who have predispositions to listen to good music but are not properly exposed to classical/jazz in their homes/schools often happen to begin their musical adventure with rock/metal music.
 
#4 ·
It's not the case for myself. I can't stand metal music. I grew up with progressive rock, and Led Zeppelin. Yes, I know Zeppelin gets labeled an early metal band, but I disagree. They were coming from blues and folk influences.
 
#5 ·
There are subgenres as epic, progressive or symphonic metal, and horrible but very influential guitarists like malmsteen who is a fan of paganini, bach, mozart etc (actually, he's probably more a fan of virtuosism). And it must be considered that metal music is a lot about impact and power, so often a listener of metal is attracted at first by pieces like Carmina Burana o Verdi's Dies irae
 
#6 ·
Why is it that a lot of converts to classical music begin their journey in heavy metal?

A desire to legitimatize their obvious poor taste in music by suggesting that there is some link between heavy metal and real music.:D
 
#8 · (Edited)
A lot of people talk about the technicality of metal bands, but they're missing the point. Many of the artists on the more "extreme" side of the spectrum (please note "metal" encompasses a lot of glorified moron beer rock as well) are capital R Romantic in a very obvious sense, and write in a "narrative" way rather than cyclical like most rock (as in, the songwriting puts telling a story above logic). Second wave black metal (Burzum, Graveland, etc.) in particular is pure solipsism and obsession with the ancient.

Then again, Varg from Burzum is highly influenced by The Cure and Dead Can Dance, among other things. Genres are not clear-cut things with simple, strict relations. Metal=/=pure classical spirit, but there is a link.

A lot of metal is pure tripe, but the people who take potshots at the genre in general are insecure intellectual shams who only want peer approval by attacking an easy target. I feel sorry for them because I am sure they were bullied a lot as kids. By the way, I guarantee the guys in Morbid Angel have more honest, genuine appreciation for Mozart than anyone on this forum.
 
#47 ·
Hear, hear! We have some Mozart lovers here, but a while ago people were poking fun at Mozart. I don't know about those fellas, but I think I can say I like Mozart as much as them, given I've listened to every damned cantata and minuet that no one else bothers to listen to.
 
#9 ·
I started out with rock music, but in my day nobody called it 'Metal', it was just 'Heavy Rock', or 'Hard Rock'.
To be honest, if i'm going to listen to anything in this vein at all, i'd rather listen to a good old-fashioned rock and roll band like Motorhead, or even the Pistols, than all that neo-classical cock-rock.
I wouldn't want to listen to Malmsteen playing bits of Beethoven's 5th, anymore than i'd want to hear a Berlin Philharmoniker arrangement of Anarchy in the UK.
It's possible to like different kinds of music without needing to justify it by trying to connect them to each other.
 
#11 ·
Heavy metal is a rapidly progressing genre. I believe that it is the next one to break away from popular music in the same way that Jazz has done.
Jazz began as a popular music genre, but as it lost popularity it began to evolve, becoming more complex and sharing more and more similarities with classical music. If you look at the contemporary "classical" music of today it is almost inseperable from Jazz music. It is beginning to become difficult to tell where one genre ends and the other begins. The same can be said for electronic music, how many new music pieces feature a laptop as one of the instruments? A good little chunk of them I'd say.

That said, I believe that metal music is beginning it's progression into a serious genre. Of course you have to wipe away the grimey exterior of more poppy metal which obscures the true art within the genre but it's there. You may dislike or even hate what you hear, but there is no denying that it is valid music and that it is progressing quite rapidly.

What is happening is those who have reached the bottom of the metaphorical "metal pool" are in search of something that has even deeper roots. They got into the genre for different reasons, but they've reached the bottom and want to delve deeper into music, thus they find classical music which has had thousands of years to evolve and mature and latch onto that. They notice distinct similarities between the serious metal music that they had listened to and the pieces of music within the "Classical music" genre and therefore want others to see the similarity. What they are seeing is partially the genuine artistic factor and and also the fact that many metal groups have been heavily influenced by the classical and Jazz genres.
 
#15 ·
Heavy metal is a rapidly progressing genre. I believe that it is the next one to break away from popular music in the same way that Jazz has done.
Jazz began as a popular music genre, but as it lost popularity it began to evolve, becoming more complex and sharing more and more similarities with classical music. If you look at the contemporary "classical" music of today it is almost inseperable from Jazz music. It is beginning to become difficult to tell where one genre ends and the other begins. The same can be said for electronic music, how many new music pieces feature a laptop as one of the instruments? A good little chunk of them I'd say.

That said, I believe that metal music is beginning it's progression into a serious genre. Of course you have to wipe away the grimey exterior of more poppy metal which obscures the true art within the genre but it's there. You may dislike or even hate what you hear, but there is no denying that it is valid music and that it is progressing quite rapidly.

What is happening is those who have reached the bottom of the metaphorical "metal pool" are in search of something that has even deeper roots. They got into the genre for different reasons, but they've reached the bottom and want to delve deeper into music, thus they find classical music which has had thousands of years to evolve and mature and latch onto that. They notice distinct similarities between the serious metal music that they had listened to and the pieces of music within the "Classical music" genre and therefore want others to see the similarity. What they are seeing is partially the genuine artistic factor and and also the fact that many metal groups have been heavily influenced by the classical and Jazz genres.
Fascinating theory.
I freely admit that i know next to nothing about current developments in 'Metal', but it's never struck me as harmonically sophisticated enough to be thought of on the same level as modern jazz or classical.
Having said that, my perception of where Metal and Classical meet, is limited to so called neo-classical guitarists like Malmsteem, who are technically very proficient but leave me completely cold.
 
#12 ·
For the record, I actually went the opposite direction and started out liking classical at about age 12, then at age 18 discovered progressive rock (and was overwhelmed) and from there went on to harder rock like Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, etc. I embraced some metal once it started being called that, but much of it is a lot of silly posturing to me. I do enjoy the ritual of it. It is a ritual of testosterone in a way.

There are occasionally metal acts (Apocalyptica for instance) that try to make a kind of metal/classical alloy if you'll forgive the metaphor, with varying degrees of success. This can easily become very cheesy if not handled with some subtlety and expression. But is this really all that different from the Kronos Quartet playing Hendrix?

I reject the claims about how skillful classical musicians are compared to rock. Oh, please! Does anyone honestly think the triangle player in an orchestra has more skill than percussionist Neil Peart? Or does the timpanist even? Do most first violinists in most orchestras have more skill than someone who has devoted an entire lifetime to perfecting electric guitar like Robert Fripp? Somehow I doubt it.
 
#14 ·
I reject the claims about how skillful classical musicians are compared to rock. Oh, please! Does anyone honestly think the triangle player in an orchestra has more skill than percussionist Neil Peart? Or does the timpanist even? Do most first violinists in most orchestras have more skill than someone who has devoted an entire lifetime to perfecting electric guitar like Robert Fripp? Somehow I doubt it.
I do disagree with this to an extent, though at the same time I agree with it.

I honestly believe that classical musicians are the most technically and musically advanced in general. The skill and devotion necessary to play a classical acoustic instrument such as a cello or a violin (just to stick with the ones that I know the best) at the caliber that most of these professional musicians play at is a feat almost unmatchable by any other genre.

However this doesn't undermine any other musician's abilities or their instrument/genre. I think that Classical as a genre has become very elitist in the way that they see musicians and therefore judge on miniscule imperfections as opposed to the actual artistry or musicianship presented. Of course I do to a degree lump myself in with these "elitists" and believe that this level of ability should always be pursued by every musician, but in essence, I see no reason why this undermines an entire genre when if nothing else it just shows that it has room for improvement.
 
#21 ·
waiiit...waiiit I arrived! how could you all discuss this extremely intelligence topic in my midnight time!!

Heavy metal??? LOL of course no connection to classical music, how can such strange music can connect to our highly blessed classical music eg. Bruckner, Wagner or Shostakovich.But, I think you mean Symphonic Metal, of course the name itself already speaks the connection. And of course also you mean Progressive Metal and the progressive chords, the real upgrade to the undate triad chord.

Waaaiiit.. here links to youtube to converted yourself or your classical friends for this fascinating music with only four members required. It's very hard to listen (harder than the atonal), but after listen with your heart, you will felt in love. Follows the drum (the one that actually sounds the best), the guitar shred (thinks of it as the soulful violin solo) and the power chorus.... (remember your day in Verdi? this is miles ahead).....

Hallelujaaaah...All Hail! Ameeeeeen!

Take your time to the journey of Metal (most videos more or less than 4'30" length!)

the intro:

can't you see the connection?? try to imagine the choruses without those 94cm hairs singers and you get the idea

the guitar riff:

remove the vocal now and you'll see Beethoven's 5th symphony is the same idea...see Dun Dun Dun Duuuun = Dun, Dun Dun Duuuuun! And its less repeated than Beethoven's riff.

the musicianship:

the connection? it takes grade 12th trained musician to play, same as Scriabin etudes!

the form:

can you connect your brain how the music evolved from the quite intro to blazzing voice in fours? it's not only connected to classical music, but the form is better, how can classical musician still write something in sonata form?

and finally the missing link of all:


--- with explaination!

They played the SAME exactly notes! which is way better than Vitamin String Quartet playing Korn (which such disgrace to the string quartet form since it's waste so many google pages when I type string Quartet!) So, it is not vice versa when transforming one style to other, you know what mean that is!

good luck!!

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and wait... should I post this in this thread.
 
#23 ·
Heavy metal??? LOL of course no connection to classical music, how can such strange music can connect to our highly blessed classical music eg. Bruckner, Wagner or Shostakovich.But, I think you mean Symphonic Metal, of course the name itself already speaks the connection. And of course also you mean Progressive Metal and the progressive chords, the real upgrade to the undate triad chord.
I wouldn't be so sure about all that. A lot of people consider the song "Black Sabbath" by the group Black Sabbath to be the first definitive metal piece (not all but enough to make it conventional wisdom). The band says they were just playing around with the Mars "riff" from Holst's The Planets but tried different notes. One combination used the tritone interval a.k.a diabolus in musica, and they all thought "Well, that's really weird. Let's use that." They may not have known exactly what they were doing or had the words for it, but there couldn't be a clearer connection with classical.
 
#25 ·
I find it somewhat ironic that i joined this forum yesterday to learn more about, and share my love for classical music.
And i've ended up in a discussion about Heavy Metal, and have spent half the night revisiting Iforgotmypassword's Sunn O))) Youtube links. :lol:
Especially that first track: 'Alice', which is strangely addictive! :cool:
 
#31 · (Edited)
First time poster here, but I thought people might find this interesting:







The second track was recorded live, and played on one single instrument, a Chapman stick. For the non live version:



It's a great mix of fusion, rock, metal and classical music. The classical elements aren't as forefront as the other influences, but they are definitely there, in terms of use of themes, form, compositional techniques (the first track features an augmentation cannon and another track on this album heavily features the BACH-motif, for example) ,varied textures (as far as anything non-classical concerned, that is) and polyphonic material.

The bass, guitar, Chapman stick player and composer of this group, Sean Malone, also made arrangements for solo Chapman stick of two Bach pieces:



 
#35 ·
I think there's at least two different reasons why you find so many metalheads "finding" links to classical music.

1. As many have already suggested in this thread, I think that some metalheads try to draw links between metal music and classical music and then go out trying to convince people that they exist, elevating the stature of metal music to that of classical music. Most of the time when people do this, many of the links that they draw are very superficial ones pertaining to things like:

- instrumentation (ZOMGZ there's a orchestra behind Epica and Nightwish!)
- simple techniques that are employed in the music (like pedal point or collateral parts in the guitars).

It's often been said that music for an orchestra is not necessarily classical music. Also, just because there's collateral parts in the music of dark tranquillity, in flames, obscura et al, doesn't make them classical.

Adherents to this philosophy are those who are looking to "legitimize" their music tastes, by showing that metal music has intellectual qualities on par with that of classical music.

More recently I've seen a crowd in the metal community forming that denies such links between metal to classical music, generally to prevent these "pseudo-intellectuals" from promoting metal in this way.



2. On the other hand, I also find that some metalheads find links that do exist and understand where the links stop. For example, in some metal, simple guitar chord progressions are abandoned and multiple guitar melodies/riffs hold different rhythms that complement each other. So, counterpoint is present in some degree. But where are all those fugues? This crowd would acknowledge that the counterpoint employed in most metal is simpler in form, and that it is found in a much more complex form in classical music. Counterpoint is also employed in other popular music, too.

In some metal, there are narrative and dramatic aspects that are brought out through use of classical techniques. Sometimes modulations, changes in harmony and rhythmic aspects are found in metal songs that seem to produce a dramatic or narrative effect.

There's also a lot of chromaticism in some metal, which sometimes makes it sound very modal, progressive and modern, but i wouldn't go so far as to say atonal. Most metal is structured around riffs that repeat and there is generally an underlying tonality for them. I listen to a lot of metal but I can't think of one instance in metal where a 12-tone row is employed.
 
#38 ·
I think I agree with this. There are a lot of metal bands that seem to be striving for something a little bit deeper than most other pop music. This could be said about many genres, but I see a certain dedication in the metal genre that I don't see so much in other genres.
 
#37 · (Edited)
I do realize it is not classical, but I don't really know how to define classical. Ok, can someone tell me that & the difference between classical and movie music (soundtrack)?

I find complexity in both metal and classical; just that they are both thought-out (doesn't apply to every metal band for sure). That's why I link them.
 
#39 ·
There are huge differences between classical and movie soundtrack music. The instrumentation may be similar (orchestra, for example), but the musical material is generally completely different. It could be argued that movie music simply provides an "atmosphere". The movie action provides the narration, while the music provides part of the setting and atmosphere. This is why popular music fits well for so many movies made today. In classical music, you have the music providing everything... narration, drama, action, setting, mood, atmosphere... etc. (with the exception of opera). This is why movie soundtracks and classical music are also structured in completely different ways.

The complexity of metal I find to be more superficial in a way than the complexity of classical music, and I don't mean to be condescending when I say that... I play in a metal band! It's perhaps fair to say that classical music has complexity on more levels. For example, in most metal there is melodic complexity created through the execution of meandering, heavily, chromatic riffs, but they are often very regular and repeat with only slight variations, forming a really complex ostinato in some way. There is also some degree of harmonic complexity and interesting treatment of dissonance in some metal music. But there is rarely any tonal complexity or dramatic complexity, and the rhythmic complexity is generally limited.
 
#43 ·
truth be told classical music is very complexed so people leave it.I was listening to SCHUBERT symphony no.8 allegro moderato- he used some fugal material with polyphony,homophony and ostinato.Most people have no idea what i mean.Metal is different and quite simple-they have like 4 guys making songs about various thing which is easy.Writing music for a orchestra is not easy at all.
 
#55 ·
Metal is different and quite simple-they have like 4 guys making songs about various thing which is easy.Writing music for a orchestra is not easy at all.
I dont find it very usefull putting different genres up againsteach other, unless you have a genuine respect for each genre. Writing music for an orchestra may not be easy. Making a hit or a remarkable work for a demanding crowd, may not be easy eather. Metal, or rock and pop in general dont sell if it is not something special with it. Finding that key in a totally different marked is difficult.

Rock bands dont have the culural money support that classical music have in many countries. So they have to find a key.... That is not easy! I dont know much about metal, and for the most I dont like it. But people do when it is good. And beeing good is not easy that is a very provoking statement, and lacks respect and knowledge of different art forms.
 
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