View Poll Results: Which is greater?

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  • Fidelio

    1 2.86%
  • any of Mozart's great operas

    34 97.14%
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Thread: Fidelio vs. any of Mozart's operas

  1. #16
    Senior Member poconoron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moody View Post
    I was in fact defending Beethoven against being described as "so-so".
    In the opera genre, as compared to Mozart, he was "so-so"'. And I believe he himself knew it, even if you don't.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member (Ret) moody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poconoron View Post
    In the opera genre, as compared to Mozart, he was "so-so"'. And I believe he himself knew it, even if you don't.
    No, he didn't know it and certainly neither do I. I have included some well known experts opinions in my post and can turn out plenty more, have you read it? Perhaps you would like to put forward an equally detailed effort putting forward your point of view and what you base it on. You do have some reasoned points to support your opinion don't you or do you? The above is your opinion I suppose or do you know of someone knowledgeable who has come up with such a tenuos statement?

  4. #18
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    I can't see any purpose of this thread. The question has already been answered in the big opera poll of last year that TC members prefer the specified operas by Mozart to Fidelio. What's the point doing the same thing all over again under a slightly different guise when the conclusion is hardly likely to change?

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  6. #19
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    I abstained from this vote as I have never seen Fidelio. However the few youtubes of Fidelio that I've seen left me quite impressed. Contrast this with some of Mozart's great operas, namely Idomoneo and La Clemenza di Tito, both which I have also never seen, left me with mixed views after viewing some of their clips. To be sure I'd still very much like to see them both, but I would have to say I'm a little bit more anxious to see my First Fidelio than my first Clemenza di Tito. So its certainly possible to compare them, but maybe a singspiel to an Opera Seria is a little bit like comparing apples to oranges. However its virtually impossible to compare the 3 complete masterpieces of Mozart that I've seen to one that I havn't, but of the operas I have yet to see, Die Entführung aus dem Serail leaves me the most imipressed of all. So if the question were boiled down to who was the best opera composer the answer would most likely be Mozart.

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  8. #20
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    This poll closes on the same day my milk expires.

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  10. #21
    Senior Member Fritz Kobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peeyaj View Post
    Do you think Fidelio can be compared to the following:


    Le nozze di Figaro
    Don Giovanni
    Così fan tutte
    Die Zauberflöte


    Do you think it would be equal? Can Beethoven be compared to Mozart in writing for stage?
    No comparison. Apples and oranges, but as far as operas go, Fidelio is the greatest opera ever! That is my opinion of course. Also, 10 days is not much for a poll that is not scientifically conducted. You should leave it open indefinitely. You would have seen more votes for Fidelio then.
    "All of Italian opera can be heard in [Bellini's] "Ah! non creda [mirarti]."
    --Renata Scotto in "Scotto, More Than a DIva."

  11. #22
    Senior Member Bulldog's Avatar
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    I tend to think that 10 days is sufficient for a person to make a decision. My general view on these polls is to put them on the board, wait a few days, post about the results and move on to something else.

  12. #23
    Senior Member Bellinilover's Avatar
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    I'm wouldn't have voted, because I don't think it makes much sense to ask, in essence, "Which is more dramatically effective, an opera by an inexperienced opera composer, or an opera by an experienced opera composer?" It's pretty obvious to me that, simply as stage works, any one of Mozart's "big" operas is superior to Beethoven's FIDELIO -- and that Beethoven was much less concerned with what would "work" theatrically than with making moral points about freedom vs. tyranny, etc. Surely FIDELIO is superb by any purely musical standards, but if opera is theatre then I think you have to take into account that FIDELIO is dramaturgically rather unwieldy and more of a challenge to direct than, say, LE NOZZE DI FIGARO. But make no mistake, I love FIDELIO and Beethoven is probably my favorite composer who didn't regularly write operas.

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  14. #24
    Senior Member gardibolt's Avatar
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    Dramatically, Fidelio is a mess, but its music is great from start to finish.
    Hours of unrecorded, unpublished and unknown Beethoven works at The Unheard Beethoven

  15. #25
    Senior Member Bellinilover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gardibolt View Post
    Dramatically, Fidelio is a mess, but its music is great from start to finish.
    Well, I think it requires a very strong director. It's not one of those operas that will more or less direct itself, so to speak.

  16. #26
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    If we must rank things, it's safe to say that Mozart's operas are greater than Jommelli's or Paisiello's. I find it silly and annoying to compare them with those of Beethoven, or Weber, or Wagner, or Rossini, etc., etc.

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  18. #27
    Senior Member Becca's Avatar
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    Post deleted....

  19. #28
    Senior Member trazom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florestan View Post
    No comparison. Apples and oranges, but as far as operas go, Fidelio is the greatest opera ever! That is my opinion of course. Also, 10 days is not much for a poll that is not scientifically conducted. You should leave it open indefinitely. You would have seen more votes for Fidelio then.
    I don't think leaving the poll open would've made a huge difference in the results. I'm sure there would've been more votes for Fidelio, more votes would've gone towards both choices, but the difference between them would still have been pretty large just because of how it's set up. And there's nothing scientific about the way any of the polls on tc are conducted.

  20. #29
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    No question that Mozart had forgotten more about writing operas than Beethoven ever knew. Similarly, Bach was a vastly more apt at writing choral music. However, Beethoven did have great genius and so Fidelio and the Missa Solemnis remain monumental works in spite of the composer's limitations in the genre.

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