Banner: Fanfare for two trumpets and organ

Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: Garklein fingerings

  1. #1
    Senior Member soundandfury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Cambridge, England
    Posts
    109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Question Garklein fingerings

    I've recently 'moved up' from the descant recorder to the garklein-flötlein, and I need advice on what fingerings to use above top A, which is the highest note given on the fingering chart. It's a plastic Aulos, and said top A is X123---7.

    I've found that X-23--6- gives a passable B♭ (though it has to be tongued really hard to get the right harmonic) but I really need a B♮, and I can't find one.

    What fingerings should I try for top B♮? (A top C would also be useful, as would a better B♭ if there is one).

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundandfury View Post
    I've recently 'moved up' from the descant recorder to the garklein-flötlein, and I need advice on what fingerings to use above top A, which is the highest note given on the fingering chart. It's a plastic Aulos, and said top A is X123---7.

    I've found that X-23--6- gives a passable B♭ (though it has to be tongued really hard to get the right harmonic) but I really need a B♮, and I can't find one.

    What fingerings should I try for top B♮? (A top C would also be useful, as would a better B♭ if there is one).
    I don't know the first thing about recorder playing, but coming from a woodwind background I can't think of any woodwind instrument where what you do with your tongue makes any difference to a fingering. Are you sure that you haven't altered something else as well?

  3. #3
    Senior Member soundandfury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Cambridge, England
    Posts
    109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaws View Post
    I don't know the first thing about recorder playing, but coming from a woodwind background I can't think of any woodwind instrument where what you do with your tongue makes any difference to a fingering. Are you sure that you haven't altered something else as well?
    On the recorder a lot of the high notes are actually harmonics. You have to tongue it harder in order to excite the harmonic, otherwise you get a lower harmonic (or the fundamental) and it sounds crap.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundandfury View Post
    On the recorder a lot of the high notes are actually harmonics. You have to tongue it harder in order to excite the harmonic, otherwise you get a lower harmonic (or the fundamental) and it sounds crap.
    When you tongue on a recorder, what do you actually do?

    I still can't see how the tongue can make a difference to what you are saying it does. I always understood that on a wind instrument what the tongue does is to interupt the air flow, in order to break up a continuous stream of moving air into seperate notes. If this is the case I can't see how tonguing harder can affect how a note sounds, because it is the moving air that makes the note not where or how hard someone's tongue comes into contact with either the instrument of some part of their mouth.

  5. #5
    Senior Member soundandfury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Cambridge, England
    Posts
    109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaws View Post
    When you tongue on a recorder, what do you actually do?
    Sorry, I should have been clearer. To "tongue harder" is idiom for accenting the start of the note, because you're building up pressure in your mouth prior to the start of the note, then releasing it with a movement of your tongue. Typically in recorder playing your tongue never touches the mouthpiece of the instrument; it's just used to block the windway in the mouth.

    If you just start blowing from the chest, the front of the note isn't accented at all and so you get the fundamental. If, instead, you use the tongue to release a burst of pressure all at once, that excites the harmonic, which is then sustained through the rest of the note even though the pressure drops back to normal.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,709
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundandfury View Post
    I've recently 'moved up' from the descant recorder to the garklein-flötlein, and I need advice on what fingerings to use above top A, which is the highest note given on the fingering chart. It's a plastic Aulos, and said top A is X123---7.

    I've found that X-23--6- gives a passable B♭ (though it has to be tongued really hard to get the right harmonic) but I really need a B♮, and I can't find one.

    What fingerings should I try for top B♮? (A top C would also be useful, as would a better B♭ if there is one).

    Wow. I hope you never play in the company of gentlemen and ladies! That thing is earpiercing.

    The Aulos garklein has a few limitations so you might have to explore cross fingering. If you are going above top A, get those earplugs out!

    Are you saying that X1-34--- doesn't work? You could try baroque fingerings such as X1-345-- or X1-345-_ (where _ = 1/2 hole)

    Jaws - Tonguing is very striking for rhythm control and articulation in the flauto dolce (recorder). The softer the sound, the more responsive it is to tonguing. In tonguing, the best example is to think of a word, and pronounce it.

    Like 'Tuk'.

    When you say 'Tuk', you might be one of the % who actually are heard as saying 'Tuk KKK' rather than 'Tuk' (no emphasis on the K'. The recorder, being a soft and delicate sound (errmm...ok...the garklein is neither soft nor delicate!!), can render this 'Tuk' extremely harsh like a precocious school child. To soften the tonguing, you can try "Tee" instead.

    Well you get the idea. We all use tonguing in various ways when we use speech; in flute (the recorder being the flauto dolce), we use the same idea, so that your musical expression is articulate and developed, rather than being just a babbling brook of sounds with no fast and slow phrasings in precise and defined shape and form.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Head_case View Post
    Wow. I hope you never play in the company of gentlemen and ladies! That thing is earpiercing.

    The Aulos garklein has a few limitations so you might have to explore cross fingering. If you are going above top A, get those earplugs out!

    Are you saying that X1-34--- doesn't work? You could try baroque fingerings such as X1-345-- or X1-345-_ (where _ = 1/2 hole)

    Jaws - Tonguing is very striking for rhythm control and articulation in the flauto dolce (recorder). The softer the sound, the more responsive it is to tonguing. In tonguing, the best example is to think of a word, and pronounce it.

    Like 'Tuk'.

    When you say 'Tuk', you might be one of the % who actually are heard as saying 'Tuk KKK' rather than 'Tuk' (no emphasis on the K'. The recorder, being a soft and delicate sound (errmm...ok...the garklein is neither soft nor delicate!!), can render this 'Tuk' extremely harsh like a precocious school child. To soften the tonguing, you can try "Tee" instead.

    Well you get the idea. We all use tonguing in various ways when we use speech; in flute (the recorder being the flauto dolce), we use the same idea, so that your musical expression is articulate and developed, rather than being just a babbling brook of sounds with no fast and slow phrasings in precise and defined shape and form.
    The oboe which is what I play is totally different to this. There is no t sound at all unless you are doing a special effect. All notes start when you take your tongue off the reed. So what you describe is not what you would do on an oboe. Which is probably why I found the tonguing harder difficult to understand. As it happens, tonguing for brass instruments is similar to the oboe except that the note starts as you move your tongue backwards. I know clarinet is like the oboe for tonguing, and so is the bassoon. It seems that the flute and recorder are different.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,709
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaws View Post
    The oboe which is what I play is totally different to this. There is no t sound at all unless you are doing a special effect. All notes start when you take your tongue off the reed. So what you describe is not what you would do on an oboe. Which is probably why I found the tonguing harder difficult to understand. As it happens, tonguing for brass instruments is similar to the oboe except that the note starts as you move your tongue backwards. I know clarinet is like the oboe for tonguing, and so is the bassoon. It seems that the flute and recorder are different.
    I see what you mean. The oboe shares the same characteristics as other reed instruments - like the harmonica - which uses the tongue for blocking, rather than articulation. The principle is based on its pressure requirement for sound: in contrast the tonguing techniques for freeblowing instruments like the flute and recorder do not follow those of the clarinet and oboe or other reed systems. It can be a real headache switching from a reed system (clarinet) to a freeblowing (flute) system, but it is usually worse the other way around! So in flute playing, when you start moving your tongue forwards or upwards i.e. tonguing - that is when the sound develops its shape.

    The recorder (flauto dolce) requires low back pressure for sound; its articulation and dynamics are more restricted than the flute. As a consequence, the tongue is the most important aspect of recorder articulation. For the flute, particularly the modern Boehm flute, such subtleties are lost on it (however not on the baroque traverso) as volume, projection and power is gained.

  9. #9
    Senior Member soundandfury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Cambridge, England
    Posts
    109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Head_case View Post
    Are you saying that X1-34--- doesn't work? You could try baroque fingerings such as X1-345-- or X1-345-_ (where _ = 1/2 hole)
    Thank you, I will try those (although not now as it's 1:30AM!)

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,709
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Any luck?

    If it's any consolation, my Aulos traverso fails the 3rd octave F at the best of times. Aulos explains with an * that it is very difficult to produce this note. Near impossible actually when played in a piece of music, unless pinched!

    That is more to do with the limitations of the plastic moulded instrument. I bet if you got a proper handmade pearwood or maple garklein, you'd find that the high octave is actually very sweet without overblowing the harmonics too easily and that the Bb notes will be easier. All the wooden alternatives to the Aulos I tried produced the more difficult 3rd octave register notes, although the cheaper ones vary by over 20cents in tuning. If you have no luck, it might be time for an upgrade

  11. #11
    Senior Member soundandfury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Cambridge, England
    Posts
    109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Head_case View Post
    Any luck?
    I've found a 3rd D on X1-345-7, there's another 2nd Bb on X123-56- (with less tonguing that gives the Eb below).
    X1-_4_-7 gives a 3rd Eb.
    Still can't find a B♮ or C. X1-34--- gives a 2nd G (normally X123----), X1-345-- gives 2nd F (normally X123-5--); neither seems to have a reachable harmonic above that.

    I'd also like to say: Holy crap, 3rd D is high. So high, in fact, that my ears aren't properly resolving it, and half the time it sounds like it's another 2nd Bb - but my rinkydink tuner program assures me it's a D, and a fairly sharp one at that (about +30¢).

    That is more to do with the limitations of the plastic moulded instrument. I bet if you got a proper handmade pearwood or maple garklein, you'd find that the high octave is actually very sweet without overblowing the harmonics too easily and that the Bb notes will be easier. All the wooden alternatives to the Aulos I tried produced the more difficult 3rd octave register notes, although the cheaper ones vary by over 20cents in tuning. If you have no luck, it might be time for an upgrade
    This is all perfectly true, but a wooden garklein costs about 300 quid; if I'm still a gark fanatic after a year with this one, then maybe I'll upgrade.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,709
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Oh - you did it!

    Well almost

    Yes the garklein's range is (earpiercingly) high. This is probably why it is a weapon of choice for annoying teenagers whose hearing is more sensitive than adults.

    Sounds like you're getting pretty far on it. I'm almost the opposite - I played bass recorder in skool and it was the sexiest instrument in the wind section (tubas don't count). That was before all of those ugly knick basses came in, and we understood that you were meant to blow on a bocal, not suck...... anyway.... Even on a Denner bass recorder, I only go as far as the 3rd octave D (harder to control intonation). I still have mine and boy, is it easier to finger now!

    £300 for a wooden garklein is nuffin' over say the 10 years+ you enjoy it. The wooden ones will always hold their value too. Plastic ones ...sadly there isn't much in it between the models. They don't have the sweetness of tone which you get from the handcrafted ones. Besides - think how much proportionally more expensive it is for an alto recorder; then a a tenor, then a bass! Never mind a double bass. Otherwise, if you can play traverse flute/piccolo, Mollenhauer pearwood ones (and the tone is superb!) have a more consistent octave range - you can get one for less than £90 if you look hard enough. I can get it to go up to 3rd octave G easily. Stil, your garklein's range is higher pitched...

  13. #13
    Senior Member soundandfury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Cambridge, England
    Posts
    109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Update: there's a B♮ on X-2---_-. On a good day, downhill, with a following wind. If the phase of the moon is correct.

    Which means... I now have both the B♮ and the D... so I can play the top part in my arrangement of the Light Cavalry
    (I've arranged it - as well as William Tell and the 1812 - for 3 garks and a descant, and I'm forming an ensemble to play them.)

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,709
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Which means... I now have both the B♮ and the D... so I can play the top part in my arrangement of the Light Cavalry
    Oh no...! Time to scarper!


  15. #15
    Newbies
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    1
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soundandfury View Post
    I've recently 'moved up' from the descant recorder to the garklein-flötlein, and I need advice on what fingerings to use above top A, which is the highest note given on the fingering chart. It's a plastic Aulos, and said top A is X123---7.

    I've found that X-23--6- gives a passable B♭ (though it has to be tongued really hard to get the right harmonic) but I really need a B♮, and I can't find one.

    What fingerings should I try for top B♮? (A top C would also be useful, as would a better B♭ if there is one).




    Hi! I realize this post is several years old at this point, but as a classical musician who recently picked up the recorder, I thought I would share my two cents on the upper limits of Garklein fingerings.

    Let me first preface with that I am by no means a professional recorder player and that other (and no doubt better) fingerings likely exist. However, these seem to work for me and I hope they will for you, too. Now, without further ado, here are the fingerings...


    High G#/Ab
    ½ 123 | 4567

    High A
    ½ 123 | ---7

    High A#/Bb
    ½ 12- | --6-

    High B
    ½ 123 | 4567 B

    High C
    (½) 12- | 45-7 (B)

    High C#/Db
    ½ 12- | 45-7


    Now if only I could find a high D... happy recordering, everyone!

    * ½ indicates half-hole on thumb
    * B indicates closed bell hole

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: Jun-27-2012, 02:25
  2. Debussy Fingerings
    By yuriHANAKO in forum Keyboard Instruments
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Aug-24-2011, 01:25

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •