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Thread: My Symphony Three

  1. #316
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renaissance View Post
    Well, even in this case is very important to know some theory. Golden ration applied to what ? It is still necessary to have a basic knowledge of intervals, frequency of different musical notes, and so on. It is fun to do experiments in music, I myself do such 5-10 minute experiments but that is just for the sake of fun. For example, take the piece below, that I wrote in 5 minute. See that, Billy ? I can make "music" as fast as you do.
    Astonishing. In the context of a two minute piece, almost anything is fine.

    I think Billy's largest challenge is that he doesn't actually understand the concept of a "symphony". These pieces that he calls symphonies are not symphonies. They are sets of ambient keyboard improvisations, seemingly without any knowledge of music theory, harmony, melody, rhythmic texture . . . just sitting down at the keyboard and making patterns.

    Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that; it's just not a symphony simply because it's long and has 'movements'.

    Some of what I've heard is similar to slices of film soundtracks I've heard . . . but just slices. Film composers can do this sort of thing for effect, but have other tools in their suitcases when needed . . .. which would be always.

    Billy is making sound collages, perhaps sound murals.

    Oh, I did get through 2 minutes of the "song" about being a black woman in heaven. Not a singer. Probably not interested in any training for that either.

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  3. #317
    Member TalkingPie's Avatar
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    I don't know when the Dunning-Kruger effect ends and the full-blown mental illness begins in this thread.

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  5. #318
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalkingPie View Post
    I don't know when the Dunning-Kruger effect ends and the full-blown mental illness begins in this thread.
    Quite.

    After I posted my comment above, I almost immediately thought "Dunning-Kruger".

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  7. #319
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Words of Wisdom

    You are as interesting as you are interested.

  8. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    I want to compose an opera. https://youtu.be/t46RH49tFkw
    Hi Billy, I am your biggest fan. I noticed you haven't posted in over 2 years !!
    Have you composed your Classical Gnostic Gnostic Symphony No.889 yet?

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  10. #321
    Junior Member Piers Hudson's Avatar
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    I've just been reading this thread over the last few days... Wow, what an absolute rollercoaster ride!

    In a peculiar way, I have found a great deal of inspiration from Billy's inner musical world. In particular, it has made me wonder whether unbridled spontaneity is really desirable. It makes me think of the famous sentiment expressed by Oscar Wilde and later by George Bernard Shaw:

    There are only two tragedies in life: one is to not get what one wants, and the other is getting it.

  11. #322
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Thanks Zeus for your comment. Honestly, I don't have anything against music theory other than it is not where my interests lie as a composer. I play by ear, so perhaps if I get interested in following some path towards studying music (in addition to my intense study of literature), I can add that to my tool-box. But, I am happy to learn just by listening. I don't think that it is any principle which I am holding, but if you mean getting my work performed, I don't know that other than on YouTube my music has any other audience, but I have never tried to go anywhere elsewhere with it, like you. I am happy that you are successful in your own composing and views, but we are different people and composers. What works for one person's happiness may not work for another's.

    As to the music I listen, I find good music wherever I can, but mostly I listen to my own since that is how I learn to invent new melodies for the next piece and so on. I don't know what the future holds for my my own music, but who wants to be remembered? I don't want to be remembered. Perhaps if some find love in it or for me after I am gone, then that is good.
    I've been re-reading this thread, as I find it highly entertaining.

    270 comments in, I find that this is where one of the major hurdles lies in having your music respected and admired by others: You don't understand that having an understanding of music theory IS part of what makes a composer a composer. Even if you choose to reject standard and accepted music theory, you have to understand it in order to know what it is you are rejecting.

    Without music theory (ANY theory at ALL) there is no composing.

    Someone further back in the thread pointed out an analogy of taping a couple of cardboard boxes together and calling it architecture. I'd take that a step further by having someone claim to be an architect while admitting that math is not where their interests lie. "I've seen plenty of buildings, so I can do that."

    Or an artist that has no interest in color, or perspective.

    "I've seen videos of NASCAR, so I can do that."

    Truth: Further back in the thread you mentioned a disdain for "truth".

    Repetition: The most sense I've seen you make is that you "write" the way you do, without development of subjects or motifs, because repetition bores you. I find a lot of modern music repetitive, and not enjoyable for that very reason. I don't DISLIKE repetition, it can be quite effective. I just find it ironic that while you avoid repetition in a motivic sense, you embrace it wholesale through the use of sounds and rhythms.

    This is why so many musicians here on this forum have suggested some study of music. Frankly, I don't really understand how you can be so interested in composing, yet so resistant to learning as much as you can about composing.

    If someone wants to be taken seriously at art, be it painting, ballet, music, sculpting, I would be surprised if they didn't have any interest in how these things are constructed. A carpenter doesn't simply find some wood, nails, and a hammer and start building cabinets . . . they LEARN about the many ways cabinets can be made, the materials, the tools, the artistry, power tool safety.

    Just one other thing . . . . your comment above, "As to the music I listen, I find good music wherever I can, but mostly I listen to my own since that is how I learn to invent new melodies for the next piece and so on." This is commonly referred to as an ECHO CHAMBER - a situation in which beliefs are amplified or reinforced by communication and repetition inside a closed system and insulated from rebuttal. It happens in politics, and interbreading. The lack of external input creates a situation in which your views are simply self-reinforced, and you become suspicious and distrustful of everybody on "the outside".

    In a way, an Echo Chamber is a lot like a Cult. Echo chambers isolate their members, not by cutting off their lines of communication to the world, but by changing whom they trust.

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  13. #323
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    Not gonna lie, I prefer listening to "Billy's" music to that of many established composers.

    Without music theory (ANY theory at ALL) there is no composing.
    Not exactly sure what this means. Music "theory" is canonical, not objective. If Billy wants to be an outsider and do his own thing, all the better. The world can use more of that.
    Casual composer, pianist, music enthusiast

  14. #324
    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist View Post
    Not gonna lie, I prefer listening to "Billy's" music to that of many established composers.



    Not exactly sure what this means. Music "theory" is canonical, not objective. If Billy wants to be an outsider and do his own thing, all the better. The world can use more of that.
    That's an interesting idea. I think music theory (or theories) is very analogous to calculus in math, both based on application of established (or even presumed) principles. If Billy wanted to make up his own theory that's great. But it sounds to many that there is no consistency or organizing principle.
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

  15. #325
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    Pianozach... there are many great self-taught musicians who can't even read notation.
    You are also having a conversation with someone who obviously isn't on this forum anymore.

  16. #326
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikola View Post
    Pianozach... there are many great self-taught musicians who can't even read notation.
    Never said there weren't. Being able to actually read music is a great asset as a musician though.

    Quote Originally Posted by nikola View Post
    You are also having a conversation with someone who obviously isn't on this forum anymore.
    Yes, Billy's last post was two years ago. He must have gotten weary of all of us, on the whole, not fully embracing his new symphony every day.

  17. #327
    Senior Member Billy's Avatar
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    Whenever I would post music, I would think of the future of it. Any piece that one makes, it can be set in a way that fills in more of the colors of its sketch. So with every piece I posted, I thought, it can be a symphony, if the sketch was filled out to its best potential at some later point in the future. That is what I understood by calling them symphonies, that they can all be filled out into a symphony in some way or another.

    As far as the improvisation of them is concerned, that's what I do, so I decided to make it into a practice of "just improvising" in these symphony-sketches. There is a reason for it. You can build up a piece just by improvising, so that is what I set out to do, and if it can be filled out with even more colors, then that might be just what they are for.
    "If a Musical Piece and a Critic’s head collide, and there is a hollow sound, is it always the Musical Piece’s fault?” - variation on a quote by Lichtenberg

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