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Thread: Mahler Makes Life Worth Living but I Can't Stand the 8th; What does thatsay about me?

  1. #61
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post
    Not only his 8th, but his 3rd, at well over 1 hour,,,,and note the large women's chorus,,which just stands there most of the sym, with absolutely nothing to do,,i've skimmed through the sym, and could not find the place where the chorus is actually singing..whats up with that, what a waste. mahler just does not make any sense to me.
    All his music just meanders and i lose interest.
    It REALLY takes a certain kind of psyche to get into mahler, No wonder i never see any of you Mahlerites over at Pettersson, Schnittke, Elliott Carter's pages.
    Mahler to me is like a cult, a religious sect. fan-atics.
    Pettersson, Schnittke, Carter, hah!! The sort of music you like to hear in a silent film.

    Mahler's music does not meander. It takes a certain inate musical ability to appreciate his carefully constructed sound world that some will never understand. But who cares anyway? We Mahler fans don't really need the approval of the musical illiterate. And I'll stop now before I get really annoyed.
    Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate!

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  3. #62
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkenfield View Post
    I’ve had better luck with live recordings of the 8th, such as Dudamel’s monumental performance:



    The texts matter in this symphony, too often ignored by some listeners, and why it was composed on such a large scale. I do not view it as a bad symphony, but I believe the first movement does not sound characteristic of Mahler and it can confuse listeners, so it takes some getting used to. The rest of the symphony sounds more characteristic of Mahler. Dudamel’s it’s one of the best that I’ve heard because the voices do not sound strained like in so many other recordings I’ve heard where they’re pushed to the limit.
    You're absolutely right about the importance of the text in the 8th. I'd go so far as to say that an imperfect understanding of the text completely negates everything that makes this symphony the triumph that it is.
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  4. #63
    Senior Member Baron Scarpia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    You're absolutely right about the importance of the text in the 8th. I'd go so far as to say that an imperfect understanding of the text completely negates everything that makes this symphony the triumph that it is.
    You have confirmed me in my resolution never to allow myself to hear any part of this piece!

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  6. #64
    Senior Member Jacck's Avatar
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    The 8th is my favorite Mahler symphony. I do not particurarly like the "veni creator spiritus" part, but I really like the Faust part. I own the Faust in German and were reading the text while listening to the symphony. Pretty impressive.

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    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    Interesting that so many like one part, but not the other. I wasn't as well-versed in Mahler as I am now when I last heard the piece, but don't remember any big difference in quality between the two. I shall have to listen to the whole symphony sometime soon to re-evaluate it.

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  10. #66
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    nothing new there,,I've noted that for yrs now,,,*like part X, but not part Z*.
    btw, don't you Mahlerians , regret that Mahler had not written other forms, Like say you guys wish he had written only 5 symphonies and put his other creative energy into concertos/quartets, piano solo,,maybe a opera.
    I mean with ravel we get all that, minus the opera.
    Even with my Szymanowski collection, i have a nice range of genre.
    I just see Mahler as a rather limited experience in music.
    Even Pettersson who is a very insignificant /minor composer next to Mahler, at least he has 2 concertos to his credit.

  11. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    The 8th is my favorite Mahler symphony. I do not particurarly like the "veni creator spiritus" part, but I really like the Faust part. I own the Faust in German and were reading the text while listening to the symphony. Pretty impressive.
    That's funny. I turn it off after the Veni Creator Spiritus.

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    Senior Member Littlephrase1913's Avatar
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    I like both sections, with perhaps a slight preference for Goethe’s Faust

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    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post
    I mean with ravel we get all that, minus the opera.
    Ravel never wrote a symphony, nor much choral music.

    Interestingly, he did write two operas.
    Last edited by flamencosketches; Aug-20-2019 at 00:43.

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    Yes Ravel would never write a one hour long work, where the huge chorus just sits around and waits for its 10 minutes of glory.
    But what is Daphne, what is Tombeau , Miroirs, if not symphonic scores?
    His great piano G concerto.
    His trio, and SQ.
    An opera like Debussy's Pelleas would have beena huge bonus.
    His piano works makes up for that lack of a great opera.

  15. #71
    Senior Member Becca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post
    Yes Ravel would never write a one hour long work, where the huge chorus just sits around and waits for its 10 minutes of glory.
    You claim to be a record critic for 35 years and you don't even know that Daphnis is about an hour long and calls for a mixed chorus?

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  17. #72
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merl View Post
    Lol, I've said many times that I have a similar relationship to the 8th in that it bores me rigid. Took me years to get the 3rd but the 8th is the one Mahler symphony I really dislike. Ive got multiple Mahler symphony cycles and even a few 'classic' stand-alone 8ths (Solti, etc) but try as i might I cannot stand it. I can do choral + orchestra as long as its going somewhere but , to me, this was Mahler's biggest dud. Kudos to those who love it (and there are quite a few out there) but it's still not my bag.
    The 8th was not Mahler’s biggest “dud”; as a matter of fact, it was a critical and popular success during his lifetime.
    Last edited by Larkenfield; Aug-20-2019 at 13:16.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    You claim to be a record critic for 35 years and you don't even know that Daphnis is about an hour long and calls for a mixed chorus?
    some recordings leave out the chorus,,and get this,, some conductors make a *Part 2 ONLY* recording.
    These 2 oddities are the 2 most strangest, weirdest gravest errors in all CM recording industry.
    How could Martinon go on to record a Chicago recording, part 2 only...?? How?
    why would he do it?
    I heard the great french conductor hada rough go over in Chicago..
    Wait,,was Fritz Reiner german ancestry?
    Along comes a far superior conductor who happens to be french.
    Not sure, i know someone mentioned there was a important figure in the Chicago SO org who gave martinon a hard time.
    maybe he wanted to make a complete Daphne and the powersthatbe in Chicago decided otherwise.
    I think someone suggested at that time in the record industry,,LP;'s were given a more rounded collection of works, so as to draw in more sales.
    Not sure on that, I note other records also have part 2 only.
    I just don't get it, How about Mahler sym ,,,,,part 2 only.
    Do ya think the Mahlerians would complain?

  19. #74
    Senior Member Becca's Avatar
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    If I was in any doubt about whether you know what you are talking about (I'm not, you don't), it was Ravel who extracted parts of the complete ballet in order to make two suites for concert performance with no requirement that both be performed together (that's why he made 2 suites!)

    P.S. Reiner was Hungarian.
    Last edited by Becca; Aug-20-2019 at 04:09.

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  21. #75
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    sure OK, got ya, so its no big deal how Daphne is recorded, Both are Part 2 only,,its all the same.
    Right?
    as per Ravel himself. yes?

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