If yes, why do you like him.
I find him kind of cold and unyielding.
Tell me about Szell.
:tiphat:
I find him kind of cold and unyielding.
Tell me about Szell.
:tiphat:
If there's something I object to, it's along the lines of this. What Furtwangler is doing is providing Furtwangler's interpretation of Beethoven. He is expressing the emotional affect he feels in the music through his interpretive options. To an extent all conductors do this.To all who say they prefer Furtwängler over other options, who can argue with that? I won't. I just don't share that preference.
What I object to are statements that Furtwängler's tempo fluctuations and other liberties represent anything more inherently or objectively "intuitive," "honest," or "deeply felt." That they do not. If you like those choices, great, who can argue. But others are not necessarily less or more of those same qualities just for making different choices.
That's fair.Just compare video of the two men conducting, and it's obvious that one valued clarity and one was seeking something else.
Nope. This is false. You have to count like crazy; the other option is screwing up.I'm sure members of community orchestras are thinking mainly if not exclusively about counting and being together. The members of the Berlin Philharmonic, at least in Furtwängler's day, were interested in something more.
You still have to count. And in fact you have to count more when things aren't consistent or are under-rehearsed. That's just a fact.It's not a myth. By definition the tempo fluctuations required feeling the changes together in the moment, and they weren't done the same way every performance.
I think Human beings can be 'truly objective'.Other than the polemical characterization deriding his Beethoven, I largely agree with you about Toscanini.
True objectivity is as much an illusion in music (or in anything humans do) as the idea that conductors are expressing emotions via their conducting.
The scientific method is necessary because humans cannot be objective.
I've never been a big fan of Koussie...he was a great champion of new music, and his contribution was very substantial....as was his creation of the Tanglewood Music Festival...Heck,
Do you have any impressions/stories about Koussevitzky?
His concert recording of the original Bartok Concerto for Orchestra with the BSO is the most exciting I've heard. He gave a lot of premieres. He also left a great Prokofiev 5.
When was this Szell/LSO Tchaik 4 recorded??Returning to Szell (again! ) I played his Tchaikovsky 4 this afternoon. Its been a recommended performance of mine for what seems like centuries (I had it on LP) but it's never been my favourite 4th. However, It still has marvellous energy and I love the detail and clean lines of the finale, even if the constricted sound quality hasn't worn so well. Few conductors could get the LSO to play with such skill, precision, fire and unity though.
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The Cleveland Orchestra Story by Donald Rosenberg said:Previn arrived at Szell's room at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel and engaged in small talk. Then Szell said, "Well, let's go through the piece." One problem: the room had no piano. Szell proceeded to tell Previn to play the piece on a table. "Well, I was still young and inexperienced, I suppose, and in awe of the great conductor, so I didn't walk out," recalled Previn. "I sat down and started whacking away at this table." Soon Szell stopped him: "No, no, no. It needs to be faster." He wasn't kidding. Nor, perhaps, was Previn: "Well, maestro, the reason it sounds so slow is that I'm simply not used to this table. My dining room table at home has much better action." With that, Szell dismissed him -- "I don't consider that funny, young man. You may go." -- and the recording was off.
That's an excellent question. Great conductors have in mind, in their ear, a sound that they want to produce from their orchestras...in a past era conductors would seek out specific musicians they knew, or knew of audition them personally, and get them into their ensembles...Question for Heck, Knorf, or any other experienced orchestral musician:
....So my question: Are these things any first rate orchestral musician can accomplish with enough whipping? Or does it require finding the right people with the right technique and temperament to respond to the blandishments?
Just my very humble opinion, but the Cleveland Orchestra today is nothing like what it was under Szell. The discipline and precision he was able to attain at his best is no longer there, even if today's players are as good or better. I don't think that's anything to moan and groan about, though. Things change.I would like to return to George Szell and also touch upon the issue of homogeneity of orchestra. I am going to make two statements. Your opinions please.
Obvious some like Szell,some do not. The statement is;Most of the Szell recordings are between the late 1950' s until his death in 1970. Many(a large major) have control to be regarded as contenders to be amongst what is known as "reference recordings."
Would you agree to disagree to that statement?
The Cleveland Orchestra still is influenced by Szell. 50 years after his death. Three music directors;Lorin Maazel,Christopher Von Dohnanyi,Franz Welser Most. Your thoughts please
I'm still awaiting some thoughts on this statement that I have put forth.Thank you to those who gave their thoughts to my last post about Szell. I asked two questions and the responses seemed to be more geared towards the second question. I would like to repost my first question and await any opinions from the TC community.
Obviously,some like Szell,some do not. My statement is;Most of the Szell recordings are between the late 1950''s until his death in 1970. Many(a large majority) have come to be regarded as contenders to be amongst what is know as "reference recordings. "
Thank you