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Thread: Leaving Karajan

  1. #1
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    Default Leaving Karajan

    Well after having the 1962 box set of symphonies for 5 years, I'm gonna move on and try another conductor's cycle.

    Question is.....which one!?!?!?!

    I've read countless reviews stating Harnoncourt, Barenboim, Klemperer, Szell and Gardiner are the best, but all reviews are so biased!!

    Can anyone recommend which set is a good stepping stone for someone trying learn how to appreciate what it means to interpret a symphony? I'd like to simply be able to say "this is different because of the woodwind phrasing" etc, rather than just say "this is better than that".

    So if anyone knows of a recent set which has top notch sound quality and is different, but not dramatically different, to the Karajan cycle, that would be great.

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    my sets are hvk & klemperer.
    check into some reiner and szell singles.
    they are well worth it.

    dj

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    Hmmm....I take it that you mean Beethoven's 9 symphonies set?
    My advice is not to look for another conductor for the whole set but choose performances by piece. Gardiner, I think would be the most rational choice for what you are asking for. Others as Harnoncourt, Jochum, Klemperer, Bruggen are also good sets, each with its own special taste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by terotero View Post
    My advice is not to look for another conductor for the whole set but choose performances by piece.
    I'm in the middle of doing that. Right now, I have two of the nine symphonies. (6-Bohm and 9-Fricsay.) If I'm in the mood, I'll get the Kleiber-5/7 the next time I buy CDs. But once I get all nine, I want to get the set by Gardiner for the HIP.
    Regards,
    Navneeth

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    what is HIP?

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    Historically Informed Performance

    http://www.classical.net/music/rep/hip.html
    Regards,
    Navneeth

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    Quote Originally Posted by opus67 View Post
    I'm in the middle of doing that. Right now, I have two of the nine symphonies. (6-Bohm and 9-Fricsay.) If I'm in the mood, I'll get the Kleiber-5/7 the next time I buy CDs. But once I get all nine, I want to get the set by Gardiner for the HIP.

    About Gardiner, leave aside HIP, these performances are excellent (not like Norrington's).

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    Senior Member opus67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terotero View Post
    About Gardiner, leave aside HIP, these performances are excellent (not like Norrington's).
    I've heard the 3rd (once) and 9th(twice or thrice, probably), and I found the first movement of 3rd very powerful. I felt that the second was taken a bit swiftly, but it's not all that bad. I wonder how the 6th sounds - to me it's the acid test.
    Regards,
    Navneeth

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    Quote Originally Posted by opus67 View Post
    ...I wonder how the 6th sounds....
    The 6th sounds just great. well balanced and finished.
    I recommend Gardiner's 3rd for the "perfect set".

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    Karajan cycle from the mid 70's
    Harnoncourt cycle with COE

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordearl View Post
    Can anyone recommend which set is a good stepping stone for someone trying learn how to appreciate what it means to interpret a symphony? I'd like to simply be able to say "this is different because of the woodwind phrasing" etc, rather than just say "this is better than that".

    So if anyone knows of a recent set which has top notch sound quality and is different, but not dramatically different, to the Karajan cycle, that would be great.
    I'd like to suggest the set of three two-fers on DG of Karl Böhm's recordings with the Vienna Philharmonic from the '70s; they're marked by a firm grasp of each symphony's musical "architecture", fine instrumental detail, mostly insistent four-square tempi, and marvelously vibrant up-close analog recording. Since the recorded sound is very much in the DG tradition, a comparison with your '60s Karajan set can be easily facilitated -- and I think the differences are most appreciable.

    FWIW, I love Böhm's "high-calorie" Ninth from this set. (Not his later digital Ninth, however, which is an exercise in how slow it can go without falling apart entirely.)

    Otherwise, I'd concur with the suggestion of the Klemperer set on EMI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moldyoldie View Post
    [Bohm's] later digital Ninth, however, which is an exercise in how slow it can go without falling apart entirely.)
    And when it does fall apart and slowly degenerate, it would sound like this.

    (WARNING: Not for the faint-hearted. )
    Regards,
    Navneeth

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    Quote Originally Posted by opus67 View Post
    And when it does fall apart and slowly degenerate, it would sound like this.

    (WARNING: Not for the faint-hearted. )
    A la the newly deceased Charlton Heston: "Ooooooohhh myyyyyyy gaaaaaaawd."

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    I know this is more than you asked for, but there's a thread for your "favorite symphony cycle", so I'll recomend every symphony and orchestral work one-by-one.

    No. 1: George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra
    No. 2: Who cares, really. Karajan from '62 is fine here
    No. 3: Karl Bohn/Vienna Philharmonic
    No. 4: David Zinman
    No. 5: Carlos Kleiber, or his father Erich
    No. 6: Karl Bohm/Vienna Philharmonic, Otto Klemperer
    No. 7: Herbert Blomstedt/Dresden Staatskapelle
    No. 8: George Szell/Cleveland Orchestra
    No. 9: Gunter Wand/NDR Symphony

    Odd Choices (Interesting but not the best):

    No. 5: Bruno Walter/Columbia Symphony Orchestra
    No. 6: Klaus Tennstedt/London Philharmonic
    No. 7: Toscanini/NBC Symphony
    No. 9: Carl Maria Giulini/London Philharmonic Orchestra


    Piano Concertos

    No. 1: Murray Perihia/RCO
    No. 2: Glenn Gould/Columbia Symphony Orchestra
    No. 3: Leon Fleisher/Cleveland Orchestra
    No. 4: Claudio Arrau/Dresden Staatskapelle
    No. 5: Yefin Brofman/Tonhalle Zurich
    Choral Fantasia: Emmanuel Ax/Zubin Metha/NYPO

    Violin Works

    Concerto: Heifetz/Munch OR Oistrakh/Cluytens OR Perlman/Giulini
    Romance 1: Tetzlaff/Zinman
    Romance 2: Oistrakh/Gossens

    Missa Solmnis: Bernstein (DG), Zinman (Arte Nova), or Klemperer (EMI)
    Overtures: David Zinman

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