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Thread: Is Spain least musically talented nation of Europe?

  1. #31
    Senior Member ArtMusic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningDesire View Post
    Just because its less famous doesn't mean its less good. Many composers are raised to god-like status, and certain ways of writing or thinking about music are held as superior to others, but that doesn't make it truth. There is a ton of fantastic music from Spain, which is interestingly heavily influenced by Arabic music. Obscurity doesn't mean bad, popularity doesn't mean good.

    If you'd like to hear some awesome Spanish composers, I recommend Granados, Barrios, Taurega, Rodrigo. They're pretty magnificent ^_^
    That was like what I was thinking. Why single out Spain? It has a very, very rich history and very strong in the visual arts. I would think there might be other countries in Europe that this question could be asked as well, certainly before considering Spain.

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    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtMusic View Post
    That was like what I was thinking. Why single out Spain? It has a very, very rich history and very strong in the visual arts. I would think there might be other countries in Europe that this question could be asked as well, certainly before considering Spain.
    Let's make no bones about it - the UK didn't have a great deal to shout about on the CM composer front for most of the 18th and 19th centuries - the country's strengths, cultural and otherwise, were found elsewhere.

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  4. #33
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    Many posters fail to appreciate that what they understand as classical music, is really a rather narrow conception of western classical music. For economic and political reasons classical music in Spain took a different direction fairly early on in its development of a literate musical tradition. There is indeed a substantial body of Spanish classical music; one that embraces and reflects both the influence of its many colonies in South America and that of the North African Moors. A different "flavour" of music perhaps, but classical in the broad sense of the word nonetheless. To suggest that Spain is the least talented nation of Europe is at best clumsy - at worst ignorant.

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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetrB View Post
    Dimitris Mitropoulos / Nikos Skalkottas / Iannis Xenakis
    The only one I am familiar with is the first, and he was as much an American as a Greek.

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    Moderator Huilunsoittaja's Avatar
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    Besides politics, there's also the issue of patronage. In the renaissance and baroque eras, many historians would admit that Spain's upper class didn't put in a lot of money into patronizing artists, particularly musicians, because they were quite focused on their colonization aspirations across the globe. It's not so much about how rich they were, Spain was extremely rich at that time, but what kind of priorities the country's leaders had. It happened in England too, that in the great years of searching and conquest, the least amount of money was put into the arts, money being reserved elsewhere.

    Also, the education of music. Spain started making conservatories rather late in the game like the US, and its oldest one in Madrid didn't gain stability of location for many decades. Thus, there are few of them, and very small. Education is one of the key factors in raising great artists, because that's where they get their foothold and mentoring. Because of Spain's weak history of music patronage, it's likely that the conservatories have had trouble gaining patronage too. In sheer number of conservatories and number of students in each, Spain is dwarfed by the big names of Europe: Italy, France, Austria and Germany.
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  11. #37
    Senior Member Ukko's Avatar
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    Spain was already going broke during the Baroque period. Lots of income, but more outgo.
    I spent a fortune on deodorant before I realized that people don't like me anyway.

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  13. #38
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huilunsoittaja View Post
    In sheer number of conservatories and number of students in each, Spain is dwarfed by the big names of Europe: Italy, France, Austria and Germany.
    I think this is true. For example, Arriaga left Spain for France to study under the reactionary François-Joseph Fétis at the Paris Conservatoire, where he became Fétis's teaching assistant. Of course Arriaga was pretty reactionary himself, though hugely talented.


  14. #39
    Senior Member Ramako's Avatar
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    It produced Victoria, what more can we ask?

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  16. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huilunsoittaja View Post
    Besides politics, there's also the issue of patronage. In the renaissance and baroque eras, many historians would admit that Spain's upper class didn't put in a lot of money into patronizing artists, particularly musicians, because they were quite focused on their colonization aspirations across the globe. It's not so much about how rich they were, Spain was extremely rich at that time, but what kind of priorities the country's leaders had. It happened in England too, that in the great years of searching and conquest, the least amount of money was put into the arts, money being reserved elsewhere.

    Also, the education of music. Spain started making conservatories rather late in the game like the US, and its oldest one in Madrid didn't gain stability of location for many decades. Thus, there are few of them, and very small. Education is one of the key factors in raising great artists, because that's where they get their foothold and mentoring. Because of Spain's weak history of music patronage, it's likely that the conservatories have had trouble gaining patronage too. In sheer number of conservatories and number of students in each, Spain is dwarfed by the big names of Europe: Italy, France, Austria and Germany.
    Diego Velázquez was Spanish, probably one of the greatest portrait artists of all times.

    Baroqu Spain also developed the Zarzuela, SPanish opera if you like.

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  18. #41
    Senior Member Arsakes's Avatar
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    I don't know if its related to two matters:
    1) Their obsession of Guitar
    2) Their defeat from England and Netherlands in Early Baroque era (of music)

  19. #42
    Senior Member BurningDesire's Avatar
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    This thread is made of derp.

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    Senior Member Flamme's Avatar
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    Herp derp life is great...
    herp-derp-faces-funny-38-e1342417696479.jpg

  22. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgars ghost View Post
    Let's make no bones about it - the UK didn't have a great deal to shout about on the CM composer front for most of the 18th and 19th centuries - the country's strengths, cultural and otherwise, were found elsewhere.
    Maybe Handel and Purcell's music was that good, there was no need

    My guess is that the relative peace that England experienced in these centuries (compared to before), led to concentrate on merchantile enterprises and with the advent of the industrial revolution and the French enlightenment's influence, it sold out :/

    Why does Salzedo get little airwave?

    The calibre of his chamber music is really impressive.




    And of course - his string quartets on the excellent Dutton label:



    Great CD. I love Salzedo's harp music - although hardly cutting edge, it's very much the kind of languid music you could listen all day to - click on the links below to listen:

    http://www.harpcenter.com/product/ko.../sale-harp-cds

    There aren't that many composers who write for the harp on such an intimate level. Salzedo himself played the harp and devoted compositions for it (rather than harp transcriptions as we've seen of late).

    http://www.vanderbiltmusic.com/product/AC313.html

    He certainly ranks up there with Martinu; Martin; Borodova's harp oeuvres. I'm not so interested in the Handel, Mozart, Dussek era of the harp so it's fantastic to discover it in the 20th century. A bit like discovering Wanda Landowska on the harpsichord .... such a revelation.
    Last edited by Head_case; Jan-06-2013 at 15:12.

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  24. #45
    Senior Member (Ret) moody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetrB View Post
    Dimitris Mitropoulos / Nikos Skalkottas / Iannis Xenakis

    As to the OP: Everyone knows that the British are about as good with music as they are with food.
    I would imagine it must be a long time since you visited here.
    The biggest abomination foodwise is MacDonalds,guess where that comes from!
    Is the OP British then ?
    Fools talk because they have to say something, wise men talk because they have something to say.

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