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Thread: Advice on a Turntable Upgrade

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    Senior Member AClockworkOrange's Avatar
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    Default Advice on a Turntable Upgrade

    I have been saving up to upgrade my hi-fi system.

    The turntable is the weak link of my system (an Ion Profile LP USB). It is fine, useful for ripping vinyl so I don't have to duplicate between CD's and Vinyl.

    So, I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice on upgrading turntables? My Amp is a Yamaha A-S500.

    I am considering getting a Project Debut 3 SE. My main concern being that I would have to move a belt to go from 33 to 45rpm. Is this a good model or is there another model I shoul look out for?

    I don't want to go above that price range (circa £250) if I can avoid it.

    Also, my knowledge is limited on the subject of Pre-amp. It has been suggested to me that I look at getting Pre-amp for the turntable. My amp has a Phono input which I believe means that it has an integrated Pre-amp. Would Pre-amp be worth investigating?

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    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    I'm weird; my main criteria is arm weight (one gram or preferably less, to minimize groove wear), and how it tracks (for less distortion).
    I've ended-up with two turntables: a Technics SL-10, and a Pioneer PL-L1000A, both of which are linear tracking, i.e., straight line radius-to center. This is because metal masters are cut this way on lathes. Inner-groove songs and areas close to the label, which rotate more slowly, sound noticeably clearer when linear-tracked.

    The Pioneer has a more "open" architecture than the Technics, which allows for more traditional familiarity and also precise weighing of the tonearm with a external scale.

    Also, the Technics has a built-in preamp. If moving-coil vs. moving-magnet is an issue for you, this is handy if your preamp does not have the mm/mc option.
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    Senior Member Ukko's Avatar
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    Yep, that phono input is connected to a phono preamp. You don't need a separate unless you are 'one of them audionuts' - or if you eventually change to a receiver/integrated amp that doesn't have a built-in.

    In the US you can buy a Technics SL1200MK(whatever they're up to now, mine is an MK2) for approximately that £250. There actually are audionut modifications available for it, if that's the way you like to spend discretionary funds. This beastie is both refined and rugged; The pro DJs have been using it since shortly after it was introduced.

    You should feel free to sneer at this recommendation; approximately all Brit audionuts do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AClockworkOrange View Post
    I have been saving up to upgrade my hi-fi system.

    The turntable is the weak link of my system (an Ion Profile LP USB). It is fine, useful for ripping vinyl so I don't have to duplicate between CD's and Vinyl.

    So, I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice on upgrading turntables? My Amp is a Yamaha A-S500.

    I am considering getting a Project Debut 3 SE. My main concern being that I would have to move a belt to go from 33 to 45rpm. Is this a good model or is there another model I shoul look out for?
    Hi there,

    welcome

    The Project 3s are fine - maybe this one:




    Oops...a snip at 9,500 ~Euro


    I guess a RPM second hand one would be out of the question? There are very good second handones - like the Numark DJ ones, or the Thorens, but you have to do your research and go on Vinyl Engine Forum or Hifi Wigwam or similar...

    I'd give the RPM the edge over your choice. You can always upgrade after, and it holds its value very well.



    These are very good for the price. I liked it, but not as much as my Michell Gyrodec

    A separate phono will help; I've not had one and just use my pre-amp phono to a class A tube amp. The quality is superb
    as it is - maybe a cartridge upgrade or tone arm would be next,rather than the phono.

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    Senior Member AClockworkOrange's Avatar
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    Thank you millionrainbows and Hilltroll72, plenty to think on there.

    Yep, that phono input is connected to a phono preamp. You don't need a separate unless you are 'one of them audionuts' - or if you eventually change to a receiver/integrated amp that doesn't have a built-in.
    Ah thanks for that. I'm know what I like but not that far gone.

    You should feel free to sneer at this recommendation; approximately all Brit audionuts do.
    As I say, I'm not a fanatic. I wouldn't say it was a British audio nut quality, rather that of a somewhat overly zealous global breed

    I'm not concerned about brand, just results.

    I looked up the technics and on Amazon in th UK, they are averaging a minimum of £300 used.

    I've got some thinking to do.

    Cheers again all!

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    Senior Member Ukko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AClockworkOrange View Post
    Thank you millionrainbows and Hilltroll72, plenty to think on there.



    Ah thanks for that. I'm know what I like but not that far gone.



    As I say, I'm not a fanatic. I wouldn't say it was a British audio nut quality, rather that of a somewhat overly zealous global breed

    I'm not concerned about brand, just results.

    I looked up the technics and on Amazon in th UK, they are averaging a minimum of £300 used.

    I've got some thinking to do.

    Cheers again all!
    The Technics SL1200 is probably sneered at by audionuts all over the world; it is slightly less disreputable in the US than in the UK maybe, because of the 'after market' modifications available at KAB, for instance. Tone arm damping, external power supply, that sort of thing. Adds a few $100s worth of customized cachet. Last I knew, KAB even does a mod to add 78 RPM and wider speed adjustment, so that the shellac people can join in.
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    Amen to Technics tts. Mine's the SL - D1, similar to this YT example.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06s-ImZFp1k

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    Senior Member Ukko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaneyes View Post
    Amen to Technics tts. Mine's the SL - D1, similar to this YT example.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06s-ImZFp1k
    Hah. There is some SL1200 stuff on that page too, of the DJ variety - and some of it wrong.
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    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    I notice that the Project Debut 3 SE sells for £250.00 and looks good. I would suggest a Rega 3 £475.00 but might be too much thou in this price range they seems to be king. see http://www.rega.co.uk/html/RP8.htm

    $T2eC16RHJGoE9nuQfRtIBRS1wwU5eQ~~60_1.jpg

    Nothing wrong with the Project for the money, I would not bother with a phono amp and use the Yammy inputs and get a better Cartridge- that's the key to good sound. I would suggest the following inline with £250 tag. Audio-Technica AT100E or95E Cartridge if too much for the AT100E or a Grado Red1 Prestige Series Phono Cartridges (I like Grado) or Ortofon 2M Red Phono Cartridge for this price range and stick with a MM cartridge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilltroll72 View Post
    Yep, that phono input is connected to a phono preamp. You don't need a separate unless you are 'one of them audionuts' - or if you eventually change to a receiver/integrated amp that doesn't have a built-in.
    Are we talking about the same thing? A phono preamp which is built in to a preamp (one that handles both MM and MC) would have to be switchable to a step-up transformer, unless it's a "high output" moving coil cartridge that has output levels similar to a MM cartridge.

    My preamp has a phono input, PLUS a switch for MM/MC.
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    Then there's the Continuum Audio Laboratories Caliburn Turntable. Used (but mint) for$89,900. Oh, shipping is $2,000...

    Last edited by KenOC; Mar-26-2013 at 04:31.


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    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Are we talking about the same thing? A phono preamp which is built in to a preamp (one that handles both MM and MC) would have to be switchable to a step-up transformer, unless it's a "high output" moving coil cartridge that has output levels similar to a MM cartridge.

    My preamp has a phono input, PLUS a switch for MM/MC.
    Yep that we are. Note a lot of newer amps don't come with phono stages anymore, let alone switchable MM/MC inputs but there are a lot of lower cost phono amps arounds these days if needed, without resorting to Audio Exotica
    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

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    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    the Continuum Caliburn is not too bad but if we are gonna go whole hog, let's go whole hog. Although my choice would be the
    Angelis Labor Gabriel $64K (nice looking and play with tonearms and Cartridges!)
    image_title_ofbfr.jpg

    But for a mere $300K look below:
    image_title_ylu5c.jpg
    Goldmund's Reference II World most expensive.............
    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Four tonearms? Is that like for quadraphonic?


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    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    ^ But would wear your collection out 4 times faster .................
    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

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