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Thread: Mahler

  1. #1186
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegro Con Brio View Post
    I personally have never understood why the 7th tends to receive such a bad rap as Mahler's toughest-to-love symphony. I have loved it from the moment I first heard it. The first movement is amazing, some of the most inspired music he wrote (and really very Wagnerian). The three middle movements are extraordinary in their treatment of instrumental color. And yes, the finale seems tacked on and long-winded. But there really is something so hilariously Mahlerian in it- it's so over the top that I find it funny, almost self-deprecating in its blatancy- kind of like Mahler is making fun of his own Mahler-ness. Overall I rank it right in the middle of his symphonic ouevre; higher than the 1st, 5th, 8th, and 3rd.
    Yes, it's "Mahler in drag"! Maybe this is why it upsets so many...

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    I love 7 & 8, but I agree with Merl that No. 3 is the one Mahler symphony that seems awfully long to endure even if like all the others it contains some fabulous music. I suppose the two I've been neglecting lately are 4 & 5. I tend to listen Bernstein's recordings when I do get around to them.

    A while back I admitted to Flamencosketches that I really couldn't get into Dad Lied and he assured me that Klemperer's recording would be the one to win me over. Well I have to say he was right. I received the EMI box a couple weeks ago and I gave it a listen. And that performance demonstrated what a beautiful work it is. Klemperer was a great conductor even if I don't like his Messiah. But he had a way of bringing out the details in the score so I'm hearing things I didn't hear with other performances.
    “Music makes you feel feelings. Words make you think thoughts. But a song can make you feel a thought.”

    - Yip Harburg

  3. #1188
    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    I love 7 & 8, but I agree with Merl that No. 3 is the one Mahler symphony that seems awfully long to endure even if like all the others it contains some fabulous music. I suppose the two I've been neglecting lately are 4 & 5. I tend to listen Bernstein's recordings when I do get around to them.

    A while back I admitted to Flamencosketches that I really couldn't get into Dad Lied and he assured me that Klemperer's recording would be the one to win me over. Well I have to say he was right. I received the EMI box a couple weeks ago and I gave it a listen. And that performance demonstrated what a beautiful work it is. Klemperer was a great conductor even if I don't like his Messiah. But he had a way of bringing out the details in the score so I'm hearing things I didn't hear with other performances.
    This is amazing to hear, my friend...! It really is a beautiful work, perhaps my favorite in all Mahler. By all means, spend as much time as necessary with the Klemperer box, but if you ever feel the need to explore another recording, there is one other that I feel is on the same level as the Klemperer/Wunderlich/Ludwig, and that is Haitink/King/Baker/RCO on Philips. It's the first Das Lied I ever heard, shortly before the Klemperer, and it's extremely good, especially for Ms. Baker in the Abschied. I have Bourdon to thank for putting me onto this great recording.

    As for Klemperer, I don't know if I would like his Messiah either, but I do like his St. Matthew Passion a lot. It's his detail-orientedness. Sometimes, this means he slows down more than most, but it's rare that I hear a recording of his and think that he actually sacrifices any momentum from the work in question by slowing down too much. Opinions may vary, of course. I know Klemperer is the bane of many a HIP-classical guy's existence.

    I haven't really been listening to Mahler these past few months but my love for his music does not wane. I listened to Walter's Mahler 1 and Abbado's Mahler 6 in the past week. Both very good performances. I have to really be in a Mahler "mode" to really appreciate his music, to where all I want to hear is Mahler. Otherwise it can be difficult not to get distracted over the course of an hour and a half long symphony. But this speaks to me more than it says anything of Mahler.
    Last edited by flamencosketches; Feb-01-2020 at 22:35.

  4. #1189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merl View Post
    (...) The only Mahler symphony I still cannot bear is the 8th. I've tried and tried and tried but it does absolutely nothing for me and sounds like a load of old random caterwauling with little discernable melody but that's just a personal thing . I know some love it and that's cool but I find many heavily choral symphonies a challenge and that one a bridge too far. But who knows... Maybe one day!
    I owned the Bernstein Mahler 8th (DG) cd for ages. Did nothing for me.
    I only took this disc out of it's jewel case in order to listen to the adagio from the 10th symphony; which was also included in this set.

    About five years ago, however, I watched the blu-ray of Gustavo Dudamel conduct Mahler 8th in Caracas and all of a sudden I became a believer.

    This was also the start of a big Mahler collection for me; previously I only owned the Bernstein DG set, Giulini's Das Lied (DG) and Rattle's Bournemouth 10th (EMI)

    61dO5WTPsRL.jpg


    Dudamel - Mahler 8th - 1st movement
    Last edited by Andrew Kenneth; Feb-02-2020 at 00:48.

  5. #1190
    Senior Member Allegro Con Brio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    I love 7 & 8, but I agree with Merl that No. 3 is the one Mahler symphony that seems awfully long to endure even if like all the others it contains some fabulous music. I suppose the two I've been neglecting lately are 4 & 5. I tend to listen Bernstein's recordings when I do get around to them.

    A while back I admitted to Flamencosketches that I really couldn't get into Dad Lied and he assured me that Klemperer's recording would be the one to win me over. Well I have to say he was right. I received the EMI box a couple weeks ago and I gave it a listen. And that performance demonstrated what a beautiful work it is. Klemperer was a great conductor even if I don't like his Messiah. But he had a way of bringing out the details in the score so I'm hearing things I didn't hear with other performances.
    No. 3 is currently my least favorite of his. I'm no fan of the 8th, but there are many sublime passages in it. No. 3 just seems to lack any true momentum or narrative like his best symphonies. It's just too big for its britches, so to speak. I've only listened straight through it once, but I remember that it took 10 minutes for any real theme to be introduced in the first movement rather than a bunch of strange, random rumbles and chirrups. The final Adagio, however, is quite wonderful; though not worth the wait to get to it IMO. During my Mahler journey I'm going to try the Bernstein/NY recording of it which many say is definitive.

    As for Das Lied, I have yet to fully understand it though I do somewhat enjoy it. The only one I've heard is Klemperer. I think I'll go with the famous Walter/Ferrier or Bernstein this time around.

  6. #1191
    Senior Member Becca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Kenneth View Post
    About five years ago, however, I watched the blu-ray of Gustavo Dudamel conduct Mahler 8th in Caracas and all of a sudden I became a believer.

    This was also the start of a big Mahler collection for me; previously I only owned the Bernstein DG set, Giulini's Das Lied (DG) and Rattle's Bournemouth 10th (EMI)

    61dO5WTPsRL.jpg


    Dudamel - Mahler 8th - 1st movement
    I 'attended' that performance ... OK it was live streamed to movie theaters and I was in one of them - the closest that I have been to a live performance of the 8th. Very impressive.

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  8. #1192
    Senior Member hammeredklavier's Avatar
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    Gustav Mahler (July 7, 1860 — May 18, 1911)


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  10. #1193
    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammeredklavier View Post
    Gustav Mahler (July 7, 1860 — May 18, 1911)

    Never would have pegged you for a fan, Hammered.

  11. #1194
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammeredklavier View Post
    Gustav Mahler (July 7, 1860 — May 18, 1911)

    It's no surprise the 6th is performed so scarcely. WHO states it is unhealthy to sit through a live performance of this symphony, and recommends the use of mask and one movement a week to prevail our mental health out of risk.
    instagram @granateclasico

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  13. #1195
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    I think the most obvious influence on Mahler was Richard Strauss. The fantastic orchestration, the lyrical melodies, the contrasts, the dramatic gestures, the grandiose programmatic content, the harmonic adventurousness...all shared by both.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
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    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

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  15. #1196
    Senior Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    I think the most obvious influence on Mahler was Richard Strauss. The fantastic orchestration, the lyrical melodies, the contrasts, the dramatic gestures, the grandiose programmatic content, the harmonic adventurousness...all shared by both.
    But Mahler was born 4 years earlier than Strauss. Mahler studied under Bruckner at the Vienna Conservatory and was reknown conductor of Wagner
    Last edited by Bwv 1080; Jul-22-2020 at 19:58.

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  17. #1197
    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    I think the most obvious influence on Mahler was Richard Strauss. The fantastic orchestration, the lyrical melodies, the contrasts, the dramatic gestures, the grandiose programmatic content, the harmonic adventurousness...all shared by both.
    They were contemporaries, sometime friends, and likely influences upon each other. But to call Strauss's music the wellspring of Mahler's sound and style would betray an anachronistic understanding of music history.

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  19. #1198
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    I guess I'm hearing the similarities, since they were contemporaries, both late Romantics. Maybe Strauss had the edge as far as compositions already out there, and since Mahler had so much conducting to do. This might have afforded him the opportunity to hear more of Strauss than vice versa.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

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    Senior Member MrMeatScience's Avatar
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    There was a lot of mutual musical respect, although they didn't love all of each other's music by any means. Strauss was an important advocate for Mahler's compositions, often helping his symphonies to get programmed on new music concerts in Berlin. Mahler for his part fought to get Salome performed at the Hofoper in Vienna, but was ultimately blocked by the censors.

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Amazon delayed the release of the Kempe set until tomorrow so I'm still waiting to get my hands on this box. I'm much more of a Mahler fan but lately I'm becoming somewhat of a romantic music completest. Not because I love everything but I just want to listen to it all so I can discover the golden nuggets.
    “Music makes you feel feelings. Words make you think thoughts. But a song can make you feel a thought.”

    - Yip Harburg

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