Page 10 of 14 FirstFirst ... 67891011121314 LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 196

Thread: Allan Pettersson

  1. #136
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Kenner/new orleans
    Posts
    1,878
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    WOW, Off my chart, Out my league, I will have to print out your Essay , due my due diligence of deep pondering, I mean I would need references from Plato, Jung and Nietzsche to follow up on your exposition. But why? As you kept things within the a range where most here can follow your conclusions.
    Yet I need some days or weeks to gather in all the jewels offer and follow up on the gold vein which you obviously has led us to the mother load.

    I just don't think how you said things here will be surpassed as far as conciseness, precision, context, and quality of content..
    Not sure if Petterssson has ever been expressed even close to your broad and telescopic insights.


    I hope In coming days/weeks I can add a few notes, to allow others to see what I observe in your expressions of Pettersson's sound world.

    Obviously you are responding to the COUNTLESS comments all over YT, classical chat sites, from the MANY who enjoy and get a kick of splashing a touch of spittle and disdain for Pettersson's music.
    I know exactly it is these *outsiders* who you have in mind.
    This rush to judgement from the countless Pettersson critics , their slurs has fbeen like firewood which formed in the kiln , these ideas you present here.

    I have no plans to post anything futher on TC< until I can gather up what you just expressed, and hopefully can forma descent follow up.
    Until that time,
    You guys takes care.

    I will look at the links to the Kamu 6th. Not too tech savvy, no MP3 apps, I only use CD's.

  2. #137
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Kenner/new orleans
    Posts
    1,878
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rw181383 View Post
    You can get a copy of the Pettersson 6 conducted by Kamu here (along with a few others): http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH20.htm


    Will order today.


    Also


    http://search.store.yahoo.net/yhst-5...-jan-2019.html

  3. Likes rw181383 liked this post
  4. #138
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Kenner/new orleans
    Posts
    1,878
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    From the Mp3 1 minute clips, I know the 6th CPO well, I am will prefer the CPO over the Kamu. I just know it, Also the Comissiona, 9th, I will also prefer the CPO.

    Others here know me as the *clip review master*.
    I am a completist in all things Pettersson, but with the BIS/CPO I am not looking for further recordings.

  5. #139
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,826
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    137

    Default

    @Best, I view encounter with art as a positive experience, not a negating one. Art is in many ways like a religion; it is not science, can't be "proven," so its only value is in the experience we get from that engagement with the artist and his work.

    If the experience is one of rejection, it cannot be relevant in terms of experience. Experience in art only has meaning if it is engaged. To engage is to have good faith in the artist and his work. Just like religion.

    Art can't be "objectified" and exempted from subjective experience of engagement and still retain its meaning.
    Last edited by millionrainbows; May-12-2019 at 18:32.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

  6. #140
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Kenner/new orleans
    Posts
    1,878
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    @Best, I view encounter with art as a positive experience, not a negating one. Art is in many ways like a religion; it is not science, can't be "proven," so its only value is in the experience we get from that engagement with the artist and his work.

    If the experience is one of rejection, it cannot be relevant in terms of experience. Experience in art only has meaning if it is engaged. To engage is to have good faith in the artist and his work. Just like religion.

    Art can't be "objectified" and exempted from subjective experience of engagement and still retain its meaning.

    I note how often you write as arguing a case against some *collective opinionated group* mind set/collective unconscious AKA *The invisible censorship*, which I've also run across quite frenquently, here/there, yonder /the ubiquitous collective VETO, of any idea which they can not fit into THEIR AGENDA's standards.


    Of course art has to do with philosophy/religion,. Note how often a sense of importance Plato, Nietzsche, Jung give attention to art as the voice of the creative unconscious,, I did not say *collective* unconscious , as art can never be for the ,,,well yes it can, Art can be for a group collective conscious,,,the group which is say drawn to Mahler, Bruckner, Brahms, all will share a similar identify of values. They think, act alike in some GENERAL pattern.,

    Now , as I, and no doubt as per your previous posts, tend to seek the , individual way, Lao Tzu's The Way, unique, individual, alone, outside votes don't really matter much as to your love for a certain composer/style/genre.

    Now its true , you may be drawn towards a generally accepted major composer, but has nothing to do with popularity.
    Then later on you may feel you;'ve outgrown that composer, time to move on,,,,or move back towards.
    You enjoy your freedom, inspite of , how the group wishes you would act.
    ie, a strong aversion towards Pettersson,,,what does this negativity, shallow at times, which reflects more on their lack of discernment than any real understanding of what they ACTUALLY heard in Pettersson….., what does this shallow , biased opinion towards Pettersson, have to do with you?

    Beethoven has been around some 200 yrs, Pettersson barely 20 yrs since his music appeared in CD format, and pre 20 yrs, , rare/OOP LP's.

    So for anyone who considers themselves a *authentic classic-phile* and dismisses Pettersson, on a whim,, no longer irks, jolts, nor upsets my apple cart..
    This stands to reason.
    Pettersson is for the few, never will be for *the many*, It is this , way, and has to be more than just understood as a necessitated phenomenon, but accepted, nay, embraced.

    Muisc can be a religious event, a voice of ones philosophy.
    Depends on what the composer actually composed in terms of meaningful content.

    I hope folks don;'t think, that music just comes forth from a brainless nitwit,,or worse, that a composer had nothing better to do than to scribble some ink on paper and wahh-LA, , a masterpiece.


    The musical forms are inborn, before they arrive on this planet. Some carry this archetypal structures, others that type.
    Some alter their ideas, shapes, forms, fabrics of a work,
    Some composers draw froma few sources of creativity within/without, Others draw wider, deeper, broader, more,,epochial, more archetypal , greater Zeitgeist , than another contemporary. Some like Sibelius, Wagner, allow folk forms, Bartok, ravel as well. , to help allow these creative surges to find new forms in a contemporary , musical setting = classical instrumentations.



    Pettersson's music captures some essence, microscopic/telescopic visionary , where time is kaput, broken down, extinguished. Beyond time, but never ever beyond this epoch, this archetypal situation mankind finds himself trapped and suffocating, with no hope , neither even a tiny SCINTILLA of a pin hole of light.
    Beyond, hope, beyond despair, beyond himself, , and can not do what Joni Mitchell has sung so beautiful for us on solo piano, 1969, *We need to get back to the garden*. But how? has anyone actually been , seen that place?

    Our great ancestor Adam, has not left us a road map.



    can I now bring this back to Pettersson's and his music now?

    I had hoped to stay away for some days/weeks, until I had something of descent value to add to your explosive testimony,,,,,something at least as interesting what you brought to the table.


    It was your previous shorter post which allowed the flood gates to burst and there you have it.


    If I don't click post NOW,,I may go back and edit, scratch , and who knows, delete the entire long winded, way off the beaten path from the sunbect at hand, Pettersson;'s unique timeless, overwhelming creative genius...If I know Allan Pettersson from what I've read,,he no doubt would quickly order his servants to end my visit, even before I got half way with this ,,,these far fetched , wild ideas.
    I know Pettersson, he has *no time for such twaddle and inventive fantasia, cocky-pop*.


    He was great man, not allowing for any such chat which would deter him from his creative mission. He was cast into a terrible grueling fate , fighting just to live, yet carrying his creative impulses to reach , not base camp, 1,2,3,, but all the way to Mt Everest, not once, but in his syms, 3,-15,,some include his 2nd sym,,which I will have to consider,,


    How was all this energetic creativity possible under such tragic conditions?


    No one knows, it will forever remain a mystery, and so we can only honor what he gave us , by sharing what we know to be a salvific music.


    Only after we pass on, will we make the realization of just what Pettersson;'s music had upon our lives, its true value can only be partly known here. The greater realization yet awaits.

  7. Likes millionrainbows liked this post
  8. #141
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,826
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    137

    Default

    I note how often you write as arguing a case against some *collective opinionated group* mind set/collective unconscious AKA *The invisible censorship*, which I've also run across quite frenquently, here/there, yonder /the ubiquitous collective VETO, of any idea which they can not fit into THEIR AGENDA's standards.

    You enjoy your freedom, inspite of , how the group wishes you would act.

    ie, a strong aversion towards Pettersson,,,what does this negativity, shallow at times, which reflects more on their lack of discernment than any real understanding of what they ACTUALLY heard in Pettersson….., what does this shallow , biased opinion towards Pettersson, have to do with you?
    "They" are the spirit-killers.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

  9. #142
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Kenner/new orleans
    Posts
    1,878
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    [COLOR=#333333]

    "They" are the spirit-killers.

    Plato versus the~~~~Sophists~~~~
    Plato vs the falsely so called philosophers, the rhetoricians , the Mr know-it-all's, The academicians, the stubbornists, the out-of-touch ones

    They are out there, they walk among US..

    https://people.uwplatt.edu/~ciesield/platovsoph.htm
    Last edited by paulbest; May-13-2019 at 13:56.

  10. Likes millionrainbows liked this post
  11. #143
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,826
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post
    Plato versus the~~~~Sophists~~~~
    Plato vs the falsely so called philosophers, the rhetoricians , the Mr know-it-all's, The academicians, the stubbornists, the out-of-touch ones

    They are out there.

    https://people.uwplatt.edu/~ciesield/platovsoph.htm
    B.F. Skinner...
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

  12. Likes philoctetes liked this post
  13. #144
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Kenner/new orleans
    Posts
    1,878
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    For new commers to Pettersson sound world.
    Syms 2,3,4 can be considered on very long prologue.
    The cycle I feel begins with his 5th, here Pettersson has finally found his voice, his ideas are now coming together.
    5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15.
    One is not greater than another. Don't listen to what you read , *oh I prefer sym x,,,or y,,,or z,,,,*.
    If a certain sym does not click with you, move on, come back later,
    Do not begin with the 7th.
    Begin with the 5th, move on to the 6th, , skip the 7th, move to 8-15 in that order.


    Now after the 15th, now go back to the 7th, as this sym will now be heard as the center piece to this cycle.
    You are more prepared. Afterwards listen to the syms , in any order as you wish.

  14. #145
    Senior Member joen_cph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cph, Denmark
    Posts
    5,287
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joen_cph View Post
    I think I saw a CD transfer for sale once of Kamu. Will dig into it, but I'm busy with work right now.

    There are 2 YT versions claiming to be the CPO, but they have very varying timings. Kamu on LP is about 53:30.
    I'll dig into it later.
    Well, it turns out that the shorter you-T ~Trojahn version of the 6th Symphony just skipped the last minutes. That's what's said in the comment section there.

    So no Kamu recording of the 6th Symphony on you-t at all ... but as said before here, there's a CD transfer of the LP combined with the unique 9th Symphony conducted by Comissiona from the Haydn House label.

    I listened to Lindberg and Kamu again in the 6th Symphony, and I have a clear preference for Kamu, where the performance is much more contrastful, with a bigger string tone and much more 'singing' from strings and winds. I get the feeling that with Lindberg, the work is too flattened out.

    Examples from the Lindberg recording as regards less contrasts or expressivity are

    25:00, 28:20, 29:25 and onwards (new phase not suffieciently pointed to), 43:00 and 45:35 ditto.
    Only at 56:40 I began hearing a bit of Kamu's intensity, but that is very late in the work ...

    ................................................

    BTW, I really really liked Lindberg in the 1st Concerto for Strings. Together with Symphonies 7 and 8, preferably not in Segerstam recordings, it would be my primary recommendations for initial Pettersson listening.

    I also think of the 2nd Violin Concerto with Haendel, the 6th Symphony with Kamu and the 9th Symphony with Comissiona as essential. As regards the others works, I'm still considering and exploring further.

    I've also heard the 5th Symphony in the CPO recording once again, but find it one of the less engaging works in the oeuvre. The 16th Symphony, for Saxophone and Orchestra, is quite stressful. Maybe Lindberg would be more to my taste there.
    Last edited by joen_cph; May-17-2019 at 15:42.

  15. #146
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,826
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post
    I note how often you write as arguing a case against some *collective opinionated group* mind set/collective unconscious AKA *The invisible censorship*, which I've also run across quite frenquently, here/there, yonder /the ubiquitous collective VETO, of any idea which they can not fit into THEIR AGENDA's standards.
    I know them simply as "The Those," or "The Them," "The Other," COGM (Collective Opinionated Group Mind), "The Secret Society," The Matrix, "Those Guys," and other names.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

  16. Likes Flutter liked this post
  17. #147
    Senior Member philoctetes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    1,012
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Agent Smith - he duplicates himself and mutates under various avatars...

  18. Likes millionrainbows liked this post
  19. #148
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Kenner/new orleans
    Posts
    1,878
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    I know them simply as "The Those," or "The Them," "The Other," COGM (Collective Opinionated Group Mind), "The Secret Society," The Matrix, "Those Guys," and other names.
    Does there exist, composers/music which caters to, or lets say, are drawn towards, The Illuminati.
    That is if you look at whats on the cd shelf of the illuminatists, which composers do you THINK/IMAGINE one will come across:confused:
    I have no idea, do you
    Last edited by paulbest; May-17-2019 at 18:33.

  20. #149
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,826
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post
    Does there exist, composers/music which caters to, or lets say, are drawn towards, The Illuminati.
    That is if you look at whats on the cd shelf of the illuminatists, which composers do you THINK/IMAGINE one will come across
    I have no idea, do you
    Since the Illuminati is rich, we'll probably see a lot of box sets of major composers.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

  21. #150
    Senior Member philoctetes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    1,012
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post
    Does there exist, composers/music which caters to, or lets say, are drawn towards, The Illuminati.
    That is if you look at whats on the cd shelf of the illuminatists, which composers do you THINK/IMAGINE one will come across
    I have no idea, do you
    Lindsay Buckingham - Gorecki - Part - Hildegard

    I hear they have a thing for Beethoven and Wagner down the street at the Bohemian Club
    Last edited by philoctetes; May-17-2019 at 21:25.

  22. Likes millionrainbows, Flutter liked this post

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •