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Thread: Allan Pettersson

  1. #151
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by philoctetes View Post
    Lindsay Buckingham - Gorecki - Part - Hildegard

    I hear they have a thing for Beethoven and Wagner down the street at the Bohemian Club
    It's a conspiracy, obviously.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

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    Senior Member Littlephrase1913's Avatar
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    I recently had my first exposure to Pettersson through the devastating 6th symphony. A relentlessly soul-crushing and depressing work, full of anguish and grief, with an ending of profound stoic acceptance. This is at least how it sounds to me.

    I’m still not quite sure what to make of it.
    Last edited by Littlephrase1913; May-18-2019 at 21:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlephrase1913 View Post

    I’m still not quite sure what to make of it.

    At least you feel something,,others, just like *huh? wel its OK, nothing really too interesting.....*.
    I am still assessing my experiences in Henze.
    Some hear one sym of Pettersson, and stop right there.
    Which tells me Pettersson is meant only for certain people, Like Beethoven is music for certain people, and not for others.
    This all has to do with Jung's book, Psychological Types.

    The human personality makeup is a extremely complex thing, which is why we have so many divorces in marriages.

    Why would music, great music that is, be a exception to this rule established by Jung.
    Which is why the mods who set up TC, has provided us all with composer rooms.

    If you don't care for a certain composer , just stay out of that room.
    Here in the Pettersson's page, we actually are more forgiving and open hearted. We love to have new comers to Pettersson give us their opinions, and try to answer their Q's as best we can.

    Perhaps we do proselytize a bit.
    So feel free to jump into Pettersson's sym 8.
    Get back with us.

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  6. #154
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    I suggest that anyone new to Pettersson read this thread from the beginning and realize that no one is an expert on this talented but troubled composer. I doubt if some of the people here even understand the negation they’re promoting in a composer with barely a glimmer of light, peace, or serenity in his symphonies or in his violin concerto. The only question is why he took such a consistently bleak road without redemption or mercy despite being so talented as a great orchestrator. I heard no evidence of artistic or personal growth in any of his symphonies and I believe this message needs to be pointed out every now and then. I do not see him making it in the concert halls in acceptance or popularity, except on rare occasion with his 7th symphony and its few moments of calm and a brief cessation from his personal agony, stress, tension, compulsive activity, and his never-ending anguish. He wouldn’t listen to anybody and now his legacy has to live with the disappointing results. I question whether his work will ever have much in the way of universal appeal because it’s way too negative, a negation of the positive and the constructive... and it sounds like his agony-filed world was mostly self-created. I’ve heard a representative example of six of his symphonies (1,6,7,10,11,15) and his violin concerto to get the lay of the land, and that was more than enough because I couldn’t take it anymore and there was no aesthetic payoff or reward. None. Zero. Nein. Just a talented misdirected composer beating his head against the wall and probably blaming the world for his misery. Hinze and Schnittke are an entirely different matter and well worth hearing because of their emotional range and aesthetic rewards. But Pettersson? Never a laugh, not even the glimmer of a smile, even a grudging one, never the slightest ray of hope or a way out of his all-consuming misery. What about love, beauty, forgiveness and mercy?
    Last edited by Larkenfield; May-19-2019 at 03:55.
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  8. #155
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    You see lark, We Petterssonians, know our composer, we know what he is speaking to US IN A VERY PERSONAL WAY. For the outsiders, sure EVERYTHING you just wrote is true true true. WE do not deny anything you just wrote, applies to those outside his music.

    Same here with me, I have nothing to do with a entire host of very, expremely popular composers, past 200 years.
    I deny them all. None will ever see play time on my CD player, Ain't gonna happen.
    So we understand how/why Pettersson is considered as *unacceptable, even appalling, if not worthless trash* by The Outsiders,
    It can not be any other way, it is FATE for you, The Outsiders, yet Pettersson is DESTINY for us.
    Follow?
    No , guess not as you have not read even 1 word of Plato, Nietzsche, nor Jung, perhaps a word or 2 of the bible.
    The Outsiders are The Outsiders,
    It is impossible for them to break into Petterssons music. Just as I could never, even bya act from God, transform mto a fan of,,,Beethoven. Never had in my 35 yrs

    and never
    will be
    any interest developed
    il my passing. I could name another 100 popular/famous composer for whom I have zero interest in.



    This is the way music is. A composer music is for a certain personality. A certain conductor is for a certain personality.
    It can not be any other way, Read your history , it is all
    there, what I am saying
    I wrote all this , just to be clear that I understand EXACTLY where you are coming from. Why in the universe would you expect me to love, cherish your favorite composers?
    Ridiculous of me to even think your beloved, cherish composers will be even close to mine.
    This is a impossibility,
    Every member here on TC has completely, totally different range of music we follow, or better composers we love.
    There in not any 2 people in the entire world, past, present, future who will have any list even close to one another, all will be very different.
    You do not care for Pettersson, and most likely, a guarantee I do not like any of your favorite composers.


    So we all know this after some 20 yrs of chatting on classical sites, Its old hat.
    'Yet we choose to all get along like one big happy family.
    No cussing, no bickering, no spit balls at any composer.
    There music stands for what it is.


    So we all speak in personal opinions.
    and if decide to bring up testimonies such as Horowitz, when he unequivocally says, , when asked *Mozart is my fav composer, he is the greatest*.

    It is nothing more than a testimony which backs our personal beliefs, and we feel good, Especially when we know he did not say *Beethoven is the greatest, I love Beethoven much more than Mozart*.
    He placed Mozart OVER and ABOVE Beethoven.


    So if Pettersson is not your, or the entire universe , for that matter *cup of English tea*.


    What is that to me, if I were the only one in the universe who loved Pettersson.

    As I have stated , countless times on TC, the music of Pettersson is something I've been searching for since birth and will carry with me, after my passing.
    His music is more than a part of my life, it is a major foundation to my sense of existence to being in this world. IOW w/o Pettersson;'s music this world would be even less of a
    place I want to hang around.
    Pettersson's music gives a tiny ray of light in a dark, cold, rotten stinkin world in which we live in
    His music represents to me,a tiny voice against the big fat mouth of the Illuminati, with its roaring thunderous lies and garbage.
    I could write another 1 T words, But why?
    I think you get my message, my point.
    Last edited by paulbest; May-19-2019 at 04:02.

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  10. #156
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    “Pettersson's music gives a tiny ray of light in a dark, cold, rotten stinkin world in which we live in. His music represents to me, a tiny voice against the big fat mouth of the Illuminati, with its roaring thunderous lies and garbage.”

    Well, that’s just it, isn’t it? Some never questioned whether it’s a lousy rotten stinking world. And when was the last time that the Illuminati interfered with your life or Pettersson’s life? Interject a wisdom into Petterson‘s music, but please don’t invoke the names of Plato, Nietzsche, or Jung, when their reality of existence was far more conscious and elevated than the outlook of this composer of negation who, according to you, represents some measure of light in a stinking rotten world that you think exists. What if you’re wrong? And to think that nothing good has ever happened to you is probably also a distortion of reality, a falsity and a gross misrepresentation of life as most people live it, who’ve experienced health, well being, love, relationships, life, inspiration, wisdom, a way out of their misery, enlightenment, and whose lives have been touched by the elusive Illuminati about as much as the man in the moon.

    So what’s wrong with this picture? How about everything, including a lack of gratitude for the good that has happened in your life on rare occasions but probably discounted or ignored. It sounds like Pettersson may have completely missed the boat and his aesthetic of never-ending pain and anguish is probably the last thing a troubled world needs and yet is promoted as representing a ray of light in a rotten stinking world by those who may have never questioned his complete absence of hope that they’re actually hearing. He never seemed to learn anything and sounds completely terrified half the time by the malevolent forces that surround him and seems powerless to cope with. Most disappointing of all, I do not see him as a courageous man or composer, but just the opposite, and there’s no joy in saying it, only a sense of blessed relief that there are no more composers on the horizon who see the world as he did and painted pictures of it in the hope that they would be hung on the walls. What a bleak landscape for anyone to celebrate or revel in as if it represents victory in a troubled world.
    Last edited by Larkenfield; May-19-2019 at 14:08.
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    lark,
    a bit of a prophesy, you 'll never be initiated into Pettersson's music.
    I just don't see it forthcoming any time soon,,,,,if ever.

    But that's OK, as there are 1000's of other great composers to choose from.
    Who really needs Petterssons music when there are 1000 great composers from the past 300 yrs tradition?
    Pettersson will not in 100, 200, , nor ever, become popular. This is a impossibility.

    Popular as say Beethoven, was/is/forever will be, popular.
    Beethoven will remain top 3 for at least another 500 to 1000 years, and Pettersson will remain obscure for at least another 100 years, After the 100 yr epoch, his star will slowly rise above the horizon. But a zenith?
    Ain;'t gonna happen. He'll remain like the winter solstice , , 24 hour twilighted sun, just faintly giving rays over the shadowy horizon.

    Whereas Beethoven is destined to thrill the masses til time is no more.

    It can be no other way.
    And I hope the Pettersson Project is reading my post, so at least they know, they gave their heart and soul, planted seeds on rocky, arid ground,,,only to see the tiny plants whither and perish yrs later.
    So is the destitution of man.
    Pessimist you tag me?
    Go right ahead, I consider my self a realist. Why play stupid here. It is what IT,,,IS.
    Yes If I could, I'd lock all Beethoven's works up in dungeon,,,and throw away the key...but really, what good what that do,,,how would this act, bring Pettersson's music forward?
    Man has to change within, and what these changes bring,,,no one knows for sure.
    But assuredly, Beethoven will remain as King, The Champ who enthralls the masses.
    Such is mankind's ,,,fate.
    He has no destiny.

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    Senior Member joen_cph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkenfield View Post
    I suggest that anyone new to Pettersson read this thread from the beginning and realize that no one is an expert on this talented but troubled composer. I doubt if some of the people here even understand the negation they’re promoting in a composer with barely a glimmer of light, peace, or serenity in his symphonies or in his violin concerto. The only question is why he took such a consistently bleak road without redemption or mercy despite being so talented as a great orchestrator. I heard no evidence of artistic or personal growth in any of his symphonies and I believe this message needs to be pointed out every now and then. I do not see him making it in the concert halls in acceptance or popularity, except on rare occasion with his 7th symphony and its few moments of calm and a brief cessation from his personal agony, stress, tension, compulsive activity, and his never-ending anguish. He wouldn’t listen to anybody and now his legacy has to live with the disappointing results. I question whether his work will ever have much in the way of universal appeal because it’s way too negative, a negation of the positive and the constructive... and it sounds like his agony-filed world was mostly self-created. I’ve heard a representative example of six of his symphonies (1,6,7,10,11,15) and his violin concerto to get the lay of the land, and that was more than enough because I couldn’t take it anymore and there was no aesthetic payoff or reward. None. Zero. Nein. Just a talented misdirected composer beating his head against the wall and probably blaming the world for his misery. Hinze and Schnittke are an entirely different matter and well worth hearing because of their emotional range and aesthetic rewards. But Pettersson? Never a laugh, not even the glimmer of a smile, even a grudging one, never the slightest ray of hope or a way out of his all-consuming misery. What about love, beauty, forgiveness and mercy?
    You almost seem to suggest that you are talking to deaf ears, based on those experiences. Most of us know that feeling too, in matters of taste, cf. also many a discussion on TC ...

    The 8th symphony is quite easy to digest and has quite simple, Bolero-like & repetitive ongoings, making it much 'easier listening' than say Mahler's 9th, or Shosty's 14th, IMO. The Vox Humana cantata also has a more simple expression. The long, simple ending in the 9th Symphony in the Comissiona recording reminds of an adagio by Mahler, or sections of calmness in Pettersson's own former 7th and 8th symphonies. As said regarding the 6th, I found the Trojahn and Lindberg recordings not sufficiently conveying the beauty in that work. Differences in recordings can be felt as particularly important as regards this composer.

    The last half of the 2nd Violin Concerto in the Haendel recording shows the emergence and growth of a beautiful melody, but after a lot of stress and conflicts. The Barefoot Songs arranged for choir, also included on that Haendel CD, show him in a lyrical, folksy mood.

    As said, he hated the self-pity label:"Someone once said that I compose out of self-pity. I have never pitied myself; I have never been able to cry. I know of pity for others, but not of self-pity. I find it difficult to hate people, but I do hate those who pity themselves. Self-pity is so damned unproductive. Do you think that I could have composed what I have composed, do you think that one can write a single note with life in it, if one sits there and pities oneself?" (a quote from the CPO liner notes to the 15th symphony).

    IMO, there's a time for listening to Mozart, and there's a time for listening to Pettersson. They supplement each other. But a lot of self-complacency abounds in the classical music world, and it is good with artists who dare to represent different viewpoints, including any parallels with that of a Grosz, Michelangelo or Friedrich, to mention a few often 'grim', but painterly ones.
    Last edited by joen_cph; May-19-2019 at 15:23.

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  15. #159
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joen_cph View Post
    You almost seem to suggest that you are talking to deaf ears, based on those experiences. Most of us know that feeling too, in matters of taste, cf. also many a discussion on TC ...

    The 8th symphony is quite easy to digest and has quite simple, Bolero-like & repetitive ongoings, making it much 'easier listening' than say Mahler's 9th, or Shosty's 14th, IMO. The Vox Humana cantata also has a more simple expression. The long, simple ending in the 9th Symphony in the Comissiona recording reminds of an adagio by Mahler, or sections of calmness in Pettersson's own former 7th and 8th symphonies. As said regarding the 6th, I found the Trojahn and Lindberg recordings not sufficiently conveying the beauty in that work. Differences in recordings can be felt as particularly important as regards this composer.

    The last half of the 2nd Violin Concerto in the Haendel recording shows the emergence and growth of a beautiful melody, but after a lot of stress and conflicts. The Barefoot Songs arranged for choir, also included on that Haendel CD, show him in a lyrical, folksy mood.

    As said, he hated the self-pity label:"Someone once said that I compose out of self-pity. I have never pitied myself; I have never been able to cry. I know of pity for others, but not of self-pity. I find it difficult to hate people, but I do hate those who pity themselves. Self-pity is so damned unproductive. Do you think that I could have composed what I have composed, do you think that one can write a single note with life in it, if one sits there and pities oneself?" (a quote from the CPO liner notes to the 15th symphony).

    IMO, there's a time for listening to Mozart, and there's a time for listening to Pettersson. They supplement each other. But a lot of self-complacency abounds in the classical music world, and it is good with artists who dare to represent different viewpoints, including any parallels with that of a Grosz, Michelangelo or Friedrich, to mention a few often 'grim', but painterly ones.
    It’s your brain and your consciousness that you’re in charge of what goes into it, and he’s always available to stir the black cauldron as a change from Mozart or just about anybody... I have registered my honest displeasure as recompense and as a way to recoup my considerable investment of time in him and release him back into the void where I feel he belongs. Maybe he was burning off some bad karma that he didn’t understand. But when one gets older and has survived many trials and tribulations, it’s worth guarding what comes into your mind and heart, and speaking only for myself, I can only say that Mr. Pettersson doesn’t qualify... But I never heard any self-pity in his music because I felt that there was no mercy or divine grace in it for anyone, including himself. He seemed to find joy in his own mostly self-created misery rather than looking for a way out. That’s where he lost me, not because he couldn’t compose, and because I felt that his limited and shortsighted view of life was not admirable nor illuminating and I would hardly consider that universal in its bleak appeal. Maybe at the apocalypse will his symphonies be better appreciated, but I will not be moving on to his 8th Symphony looking for relief from the previous six I’ve heard, not to mention his 53 minute violin concerto in the same vein.
    Last edited by Larkenfield; May-20-2019 at 02:21.
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    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkenfield View Post
    It’s your brain and your consciousness that you’re in charge of what goes into it, and he’s always available to stir the black cauldron as a change from Mozart or just about anybody... I have registered my honest displeasure as compensation and as a way to recoup my considerable investment of time in him and release him back into the void that he seemed to love. Maybe he was burning off some bad karma that he didn’t understand. But when one gets older and has survived many trials and tribulations, it’s worth guarding what comes into your mind and heart, and I can only say that Mr. Pettersson flunked. I never heard any self-pity in his music because I felt that there was no mercy or divine grace in it for anyone. He seemed to find joy in his own mostly self-created suffering rather than looking for a way out. That’s where he lost me and not because he couldn’t compose.
    Well, I must say, that's one of the most insightful, sensitive, and humorous rejections I've heard ("...release him back into the void that he seemed to love"). Haa haa!

    Larkenfield's rejection of Pettersson is primarily a religious one, in the most general sense of the term. He is "doing the Lord's work" by rejecting Pettersson, and is an "advocate of the light."

    Perhaps Pettersson's music is for those of us who have "survived many trials and tribulations" and did not come out "sparking clean" as you seem to have done, by chasing away the darkness, "guarding what comes into your mind and heart," and basking in "mercy and divine grace" which is not legal tender in the present life.

    For the rest of us, who have come to accept our own darkness, and have received no reprieve, grace, or mercy, we have come to welcome the darkness as an old companion, and return to the shadows, knowing in our hearts that we have been honest with ourselves and are psychologically whole.
    Last edited by millionrainbows; May-19-2019 at 22:31.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

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    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

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    Senior Member philoctetes's Avatar
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    I'm no shrinking violet with my taste in music nor have I lived a sheltered life and I often scoff at the way Lark hears bad things in newer music but.... I already commented on the 6th, it was ok... so my next stop was the 9th, last Thursday night, and I felt like Colonel Kurtz uttering his last words on earth, or someone being slowly tortured. Won't be going back to that one, there is simply too much good music out there that is fresh, new, and not depressing.

    I admit there are elements of his music I like a lot, but they are not unique or exclusive to his music so I can find them elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkenfield View Post
    and release him back into the void where I feel he belongs. \.

    You see this has been my thought about Beethoven some past decade or so.
    If I had the authority, I'd place his scores in a dark dungeon and,,throw away the key,,,however I would not burn them, JNo I would never go so far as that.

    wheres the tongue-in-check smiley when you need it most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Well, I must say, that's one of the most insightful, sensitive, and humorous rejections I've heard ("...release him back into the void that he seemed to love"). Haa haa!

    Larkenfield's rejection of Pettersson is primarily a religious one, in the most general sense of the term. He is "doing the Lord's work" by rejecting Pettersson, and is an "advocate of the light."

    Perhaps Pettersson's music is for those of us who have "survived many trials and tribulations" and did not come out "sparking clean" as you seem to have done, by chasing away the darkness, "guarding what comes into your mind and heart," and basking in "mercy and divine grace" which is not legal tender in the present life.

    For the rest of us, who have come to accept our own darkness, and have received no reprieve, grace, or mercy, we have come to welcome the darkness as an old companion, and return to the shadows, knowing in our hearts that we have been honest with ourselves and are psychologically whole.
    It is simply amazing some of the comments I've read over the years about Pettersson, Its only a few haters, not many, many others who show deep profound thankfulness and gratitude towards the greatest ever symphonist.

    The polarization , divisiveness which his music inspires .
    You will never ever, find any composer in history which instills these most extremeists positions.

    I mean its like Alpha/Omega.
    Not worlds apart, universes apart.
    Men are from,,,women are from,,,,may bev true at times, other times not so true,,,
    But here in Pettersson, the divide is like unto no other.

    Unprecedented , never to be repeated in this strong of a division.
    We, the Petterssonians, know what we have in our great musical genius, who has provided for us, a art form which allows us to take courage, make it through this evil world.
    While the other camp, would love to destroy his works, with fire, , like the old heretic hunters did to the great Anabaptists.
    I can feel it.
    Their contempt , causes them to utter vehemence , mixed with despicable slurs.



    These unusual reactions ,, grants us insight into the true value of Pettersson's music. Now when we play the cd, we listen more intently, more embracing the whole. Our souls become bonded deeper, more lovingly with our greatest of all symophonists, Allan Pettersson.
    Whose music will burn bright as a lighthouse on this turbulent might sea.
    Though our boat is in a hurricane with 90 ft swells we yet see his light house, giving us guidance, comfort, encouragements.


    The more we see anti-Pettersson's lashing out, , the more his music gains in a glory and eternal power to help heal our wounded

    souls
    There is the music of only 1 composer which harbors this supernal power, that of Allan Pettersson and no other.

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  23. #164
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    I reluctantly decided to hear Pettersson’s 8th Symphony against my better judgment, and I’m glad that I did. I thought it was outstanding! Either his demons and apparitions were leaving him alone or he was fully in control of them. I kept waiting for him to ruin it with excessive tension, crisis and anxiety but he didn’t and much of it has a beautiful serenity and sense of landscape. Whatever unusual dimension he’s in, one that I’ve never heard portrayed in sound before, he’s expressing the better side of it. Some of his lines and textures and orchestrations were also outstanding - full of character and originality. The Symphony shows an entirely different side of him, his better side, in my opinion, and why the 8th isn”t recommended right off the bat as a starting point to appreciate him at his more constructive best is beyond me. Instead, listeners have to jump through hoops to arrive here... The 8th also impressed me as being somewhat Mahleresque, in a good way. It was also free of the overriding sense of constant pain and anguish that I feel are so much a part of so many of his others symphonies - and I still feel the same way about the dark, stressed-out character of those others. But here? Just magical and beautiful with just enough contrast to keep it interesting. Truly one of the best 20th-century symphonies I’ve heard and I wouldn’t mind hearing it live in the concert hall because this one has a chance to live. I believe it would be an overwhelming experience and I hope others have a chance to hear it:

    Last edited by Larkenfield; May-20-2019 at 08:06.
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    Now I am so so glad (reference to Cream's 1969 hit I'm so Glad, I'm so Glad, I'm glad, I'm glad , I'm glad. ,,cool song).
    Because I always felt the 8th, is perhaps his greatest symphony.
    It is unique and special.
    I's so glad to made the decision to venture into the Petterssons music, if only 1 last time.

    And you know if that is the only sym you can find of interest, , that you can connect with, who's to tell you any different.
    I am sure there are Mahlerists, Brucknerians, who only love 1 maybe 2 syms of the 2 great composers, and that's it.


    I've come across many times Mahlerians, saying, *Oh yeah, I really love the such and such* movement from this or that sym..I mean, what happened with the other movements,,,*what is your best movement from any Mahler sym...*, and you will see the thread go on for 10 pages.
    I mean, how can one splinter off parts and still love the whole?

    I mean what do they do with the sections that are not so thrilled about?



    I find the 8th intriguing, opening to closing notes. ..
    btw that YT upload is the Comissiona/Baltimore is a interesting ~~interpretation~~~ it is quite different from either the Segerstam/Norropking and the CPO. These 2 are very similar compared to Comissiona
    '
    I will need more time to hear the Comissiona, as I have he BIS, CPO already locked in memory..I can not recall how the new BIS recording comes off with Lindberg/Norrpoking.


    I think I will have to order the Comissiona Baltimore .
    Thanks for bringing the record to my attention.

    It is definitely different, and allowable.
    btw, I havea friend, who wishes that you might want to try the 14th...he knows of this site and felt you would never ever come around to Pettersson, You see, , Pettersson has his surprises.

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