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Thread: Allan Pettersson

  1. #181
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Symphony No. 8 does feel like an extended meditation on a minor chord, in ways like a raga; but I don't get the same sense of peace from Pettersson as I do from Ravi Shankar. I get similar feelings with Bruckner, and parts of Mahler. So, time seems to stand still in Pettersson, or rather, run in place on an "emotional treadmill."

    As far as the "Suicide Symphony," there is nothing on WIK to back this up; and I saw that Tchaikovsky's Sixth is also called that, amid protests.

    Ironically, the reference to Pettersson's Sixth as the "Suicide Symphony" came in the liner notes to Symphony No. 8 (BIS).
    Last edited by millionrainbows; May-22-2019 at 11:55.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

  2. #182
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    Interesting post.

    Now I understand hy folks are drawn to Bruckner and Mahler. I do not know either's music, only in parts.
    I have a friend who is also a Petterssonian, (member of TC, but for some oddity can not post a message), he also is a Brucknerian.

    Anyway , from reading posts on Mahler threads, I gather his music evokes similar feeling tones in listeners.

    You hit the nail, on Tchaikovsky's 6th as music for *the dark night of the soul*…
    How many tears have fallen, from the countless depressed souls, while languishing in the 6th sym?
    Count me as one, wayyy back in my 1st year as a CM fan. I played the Solti/Chicago LP any/every time I felt suicidal thoughts coming on.


    Read Lalo's comment on the YT vid.


    Here is the Mravinsky, who takes it differently from Solti/Chicago(perhaps more lush and sentimental vs Mrav's strict conducting).
    Not sure which I would prefer today, with my keener, highly polished critical listening skills.
    It really does not matter , as I have no interest in Tchaikovsky.

    I grew out of my suicidal depression, so had no more desire to hear the 6th.

    Now I have Pettersson, and he will remain for the eon of the eons.
    (= this is exact trans in the bible where the idiot catholics have it as *forever and ever*, idiots)





  3. #183
    Senior Member philoctetes's Avatar
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    Always amazing to me that a symphony with a circus march can be considered depressing...

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    Circus march, the Tchai 6th?
    Which section?
    Yet what about the highly intense emotional passages , places where the soul is deeply moved to tears and sobs? Thus I and others found music which reflected our death like state, and so we could find strength to live just ,,,one more day?

  5. #185
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by philoctetes View Post
    Always amazing to me that a symphony with a circus march can be considered depressing...
    What are you doing, philocetes, trying to explode the "suicide symphony" paradigm we've been working on here? Spoilsport!
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

  6. #186
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post
    Circus march, the Tchai 6th?
    Which section?
    Yet what about the highly intense emotional passages , places where the soul is deeply moved to tears and sobs? Thus I and others found music which reflected our death like state, and so we could find strength to live just ,,,one more day?
    Listen, maybe "death" is not all bad. Death can also mean "to submit" or surrender one's "ego," like cracking an eggshell, so that the new inner self can shine forth. This "death-like state" of "tears and sobs," as Paul Best so touchingly put it, turned out to be a good thing. He has been there, with Pettersson, with me, and with whoever has suffered deeply.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

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    Well all man is in a state of suffering, Not 1 TC member is exempt from that event, universal as it is.
    take france, The proper, real and true title to that land is , The Egregious Downcasts. The lost and wandering soulless.
    Pettersson is THE composer for the Yellow Vesters. He is their voice, speaks their language.
    Yet they know not.
    I recall the graffiti post Katrina in New Orleans, I-10 RR bridge at the City park exit, heading west from downtown....
    HARSH


    I thought,,,in one word, no other

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by philoctetes View Post
    I too, might have appreciated Pettersson more at 35 than 65, or at certain times in life I'd rather not relive. Darkness isn't so alluring to me anymore, and I seek illumination wherever I can find it. OTOH the kind of easy listening modern CM that sells more recordings doesn't attract me at all.

    At this point in life my ears are quite flexible and my mind as well when it comes to music, and I've been a cherry picker for some time. Harvesting the best is hard work when one does it by listening and making subjective judgments. I don't even hope that my "best" will be anybody else's, and I've given up on converting anybody to anything I like. Either they do or they don't. Music opinion is like religious belief when it comes to sharing.

    So I'll be giving #8 a chance soon... right now I'm digging on Saygun's quartet, every nice...
    I was about 35 when I first encountered AP, Joshua Kosman in the SF Chronicle recommended a new recording by Comissiona and the Baltimore of the 8th, and I was hooked.

    I’m 68 now and a committed Petterssonian. I love the continuity of his thought, his sense of pacing and narrative, the through-composed flow and structure.

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  10. #189
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Pettersson: Music for Losers
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

  11. #190
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    ...............
    Last edited by Larkenfield; May-25-2019 at 17:23.
    "That's all Folks!"

  12. #191
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    His music is autobiographical according to Pettersson himself but few bother to quote him: "The music forming my work is my own life, its blessing, its curses: in order to rediscover the song once sung by the soul"... "I am not a composer. I am a voice crying out … that threatens to drown in the noise of the times." No wonder there’s so much pain, stress and unrelenting anguish in so many of his symphonies when that’s the kind of life he lived. The problem is he never drowned in the noise of the world but only the noise within himself in too often an extremely shortsighted way, except for perhaps his Eighth Symphony which is not about drowning in anything at all but which represents the expression of something higher in his nature.
    Last edited by Larkenfield; May-26-2019 at 05:21. Reason: Within
    "That's all Folks!"

  13. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesto di Napoli View Post
    I was about 35 when I first encountered AP, Joshua Kosman in the SF Chronicle recommended a new recording by Comissiona and the Baltimore of the 8th, and I was hooked.

    I’m 68 now and a committed Petterssonian. I love the continuity of his thought, his sense of pacing and narrative, the through-composed flow and structure.
    So you were one of the very 1st IANs in this music?
    UNREAL


    amazing that you came to Pettersson long , long before any of us..
    You must have felt isolated and alone,,I mean how could you even begin to share thoughts on Pettersson, when there may have only been say 10K LP's released..,,and how many of those made it to other true Petterssonians?
    Some may have bought,,and *what ,,is THIS???*,,,Oh well, ,,and now sits in some attic or garage.,,or city dump....


    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...siona&_sacat=0


    amazing DG made the recording,,,of all labels,,,DG…

    I have it playing now, just received,,,its a fine performance for its time,,,think about it,,of all USA orch's the BALTIMORE is in performance,,,the smallest of the big USA orch's, ,,,yet I seriously doubt if the Chicago, Cleveland, NY, or any other major could have beat this Baltimore ,,,seems they came prepared and more than met this great challenge.


    Along with this 8/10,,I just ordered the 6/9,,which I will get to later tonight..
    I will posta few notes coming day,s



    Will another US orch perform Pettersson in the next decade?

    Which orch could perform Pettersson today?

    My best guess would be the LA with Salonen and only that duo, and no others.

    This is music for Salonen and the Los Angeles SO...


    about 13 through the cd,,,its a very fine performance,,,,,,coming in to my fav section,,that tremendous buildup and crash of persecution....No matter who is playing this 8th, I will love it.
    Its hard not to love any Pettersson sym performance.


    His music is greater than our life.
    Paul
    The PetterssonIAN since ,,oh 2003, maybe just before.

  14. #193
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    Time to
    revive the Pettersson topic. For those who do not know where to begin in Pettersson, may I suggest, Begin with his 5th symphony which is really Pettersson's first symphonic score to mark out his own individual unique voice.
    So begin at sym 5, then move on to
    6
    then 7
    8
    9
    10
    11
    12
    13
    14
    15.
    Symphony 12, more like a choral work, may be a bit tough at 1st listen, so its OK to stop at any point and come back later to the 12th.
    If so, move into the 13th
    14
    15

    The 16th symphony is considered a sax concerto of sorts,,That symphony I exclude from his symphonic cycle.
    His viola and violin concertos can be experienced after the great symphonic journey.
    The New Lindberg cycle, might be available as a complete box set sometime in the future,
    The CPO set is a excellent buy and offers excellent performances.


    The 5th symphony


    Last edited by paulbest; Jul-07-2019 at 04:05.

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  16. #194
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    If Trump does NOT get re-elected, Pettersson's popularity will take a sharp dive. People won't need depressing music any more.

    Challenge accepted! I will listen to his 5th.
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Jul-08-2019 at 19:32.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

  17. #195
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    I just realzied how important a work is the Viola Concerto, which , for some reason, Pettersson kept hidden, til after his death the great conductor Ruzicka of the Berlin RSO, came upon the score yrs after the passing of the great swedish composer.
    Finland has the Sibelius Academy .
    Poland the Szymanowski Academy and of course many Chopin schools of study.
    Will Sweden ever come to acknowledge their greatest composer?
    I believe the Norrepoking /Christian Lindburg are trying to do just this task , with their extended Petersson Project. Which aspires to travel world wide to present Pettersson's music in a live performance.
    Not sure where the orch is today/schedules.
    anyway, I just realized, there are not many viola concertos written in the 20th C, and that fact should be noted.
    I consider the viola concerto equal to his masterpiece the VC2 and also stands along with his great 15 sym cycle.
    Its a major success, no fluff, filers, gimmickery.



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