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Thread: Allan Pettersson

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    Quote Originally Posted by joen_cph View Post
    The 7th with Dorati is a classic. I'd also invest in an 8th. Personally I'd avoid Segerstam in those and sample CPOs before buying, since Pettersson recordings can be very different from each other - actually, they tend to be.
    Interesting,

    What is it about Segerstam's recordings, that you feel CPO has superior perforamnces?
    Any particular sym?
    Or all of his records?

    As I mentioned elsewhere, Pettersson is not like Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms. There is room for some slight variations, as it is thickly layered, highly complex music.
    Each conductor, will offer a slightly dif angle, dif texture.

    Note what Hahn says about performing any VC, there are slight variations she can approach each work. Which is why she takes so much time in practice to find her way of tackling each concerto. Oistrakh's Shostakovich VC1 recordings, each is slightly different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post
    Interesting,

    What is it about Segerstam's recordings, that you feel CPO has superior perforamnces?
    Any particular sym?
    Or all of his records?

    As I mentioned elsewhere, Pettersson is not like Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms. There is room for some slight variations, as it is thickly layered, highly complex music.
    Each conductor, will offer a slightly dif angle, dif texture.

    Note what Hahn says about performing any VC, there are slight variations she can approach each work. Which is why she takes so much time in practice to find her way of tackling each concerto. Oistrakh's Shostakovich VC1 recordings, each is slightly different.
    I like some Segerstam recordings, but his 7th and 8th doesn't capture the flow and intensity in the music IMO, compared to others. But I like his 10th and 11th, that are coupled with those symphonies. It's been a while since I heard them though.

    I'm not a fan of just the CPO set, I might prefer Lindberg, but have only heard some of the latter's recordings. For the 6th, I prefer Kamu, for the 7th, Dorati is certainly good, for the 8th and 9th, Comissiona. The CPO of the 8th (Thomas Sanderling) is very good too. The 9th with Comissiona is a unique, much slower performance than the fast alternatives, and Kamu catches a more lyrical or 'singing' mood in the 6th. But Kamu's and Comissiona's might still just be available as LPs.

    As a Dane, I've naturally heard a good deal of Segerstam, because he was a leading conductor of our radio symphony orchestra here for quite a few years. IMO, he's not always that good at capturing a sense of architecture or forward moving tension in works.

    IMG_1539.jpg

    A quick photo of my Pettersson CDs.
    The two CDs where some of the content is unreadable due to light also contain the 12th Symphony with Larsson and the 13th with Francis on CPO.

    To this should be added LPs:

    0.jpg

    - Symphony 2/Westerberg
    - Symphony 6/Kamu
    - Symphony 7/same Dorati (not on the photo)
    - Symphony 8/Comissiona
    - Symphony 9/Comissiona
    - Symphony 10/Dorati (+Blomdahl)
    - Symphony 12/same Larsson

    - 2nd Violin Cto/same Haendel (not on the photo)

    - 1st String Concerto/same Westerberg (+Moses Pergament)
    - Cantata, Vox Humana/Westerberg

    I still don't own the reconstructed 1st Symphony. The 11th with Segerstam I have as a download. The fragment of the 17th I have as a tape recording.
    Last edited by joen_cph; May-02-2019 at 07:31.

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    A real Petterssonian,
    Glad to meet you.
    You know come to think of it, from faint memory, as it has been a while since I last heard Segerstam, the intensity was there, no doubt, but some flow, lyricis may have been lacking...I might agree, I'll post some reviews when I unpack my cd collection, after having just moved.

    Kamu wasa great conductor, witness his Sibelius records.
    Both Segerstam's records in Sibelius, are OK, the 1st set, with the Danish RSO is superior to his later Helsinki.

    I have a 3 Comissiona on CD format, oth excellent.
    Let me ask you, is Pettersson now being played over Scandanavian classical radio at the moment?
    Is there a growing number of fans, in the 3 scandanavian countries for Pettersson's music?


    I would like to know some of your opinions on the new Lindberg set.
    There area few places where the CPO shines more effective, but overall its a good set.
    Lindberg and his group are making big changes around the world. w/o this Pettersson Project, Pettersson would continue to be relegated to a dark corner.
    Think about it, the greatest symphonist, shoved into a dark forgotten place for decades after his passing.
    Humanity always has been sluggish in making new discoveries in great art.

    I hope and desire one day to send funds their way, and do my part. Hopefully others will join in.
    Ck out any of my posts here, and on amazon, let me know what you think of my views on Pettersson.

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    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Paul, how do you respond to the dismissal of Pettersson's symphonies as being "amorphous and sprawling"? If they really are, is this possibly their strength?
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Paul, how do you respond to the dismissal of Pettersson's symphonies as being "amorphous and sprawling"? If they really are, is this possibly their strength?
    I think you are referring to a post,,wish I could locate it,,,I know where it is, over at the *why are great modern composers shunted , disregarded, neglected, booed at, pooped upon, laughed, criticized, spat upon so much, so often?* that topic,,well really its only 2 or 3 major modern composers that receive all these accolades ,,, one of these 2 or 3 is the music of Allan Pettersson.

    I think that was 2 of the words, but he had other things to say as well.
    Which is fine, I just get chuckles out of anti Pettersson rhetoric.


    Like I say, Pettersson to me represents to me the single most important voice for this Zeitgeist. Now if others havea dif world view, that's fine N dandy, Obviously they are not going to hear Pettersson's music as I do.


    Pettersson's music is what I was looking for all my life since birth.
    He most perfectly reflects all that I was, am and forever will be.
    I hate to go into such semantics,,,others might read me as *antics*. What~EVER!


    Sorry to go off w/o giving a clear answer,,,maybe ,,well let me look up the word *amorphous* 1st,,,be back....yep his music could be described with this 2 adjectives ,,and many others.
    But as you know, the use of amorphous was used as a destructive criticism, as though his music was *vaporous* = w/o any real meaning, just a blob of goo.
    This is how I read his post.
    Another member mentioned that Pettersson was *really a insignificant minor composer*

    I guess he just felt the need to combat my incessant opinion, that Pettersson is the greatest symphonist,,and so he founda place to slip that slur in.

    Whatever

    I know who Pettersson is, and a few others every day are now making this discovery.


    Pettersson is saying a lot in his music, He is amorphous and sprawling. Pettersson is reflecting THIS Zeitgeist which is a epoch completely out of control.
    Whereas Beethoven and even Brahms is par excellent the voice of the Illuminati, Pettersson is the Voice of the Nietzsche's Over Soul, Jung;s Collective Unconscious, Primordial man, our Adamic nature, our angelic spirit within us all. Pettersson is the great prophet cast in a musical form.
    Genius , only match by a very few gifted composers throughout history.

    Hope I helped answer your inquiry.

    Paul
    The Petterssonian

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    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Wow, it's touching, and surprising, to see someone expressing their love of a composer's music in this way: very human, very personally, without any distracting historical overview, and without using an impersonal "arena" of historical comparison. Rave on, brother. We can all learn something from you, or be reminded of what this forum could be.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

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  10. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post
    A real Petterssonian,
    Glad to meet you.
    You know come to think of it, from faint memory, as it has been a while since I last heard Segerstam, the intensity was there, no doubt, but some flow, lyricis may have been lacking...I might agree, I'll post some reviews when I unpack my cd collection, after having just moved.

    Kamu wasa great conductor, witness his Sibelius records.
    Both Segerstam's records in Sibelius, are OK, the 1st set, with the Danish RSO is superior to his later Helsinki.

    I have a 3 Comissiona on CD format, oth excellent.
    Let me ask you, is Pettersson now being played over Scandanavian classical radio at the moment?
    Is there a growing number of fans, in the 3 scandanavian countries for Pettersson's music?


    I would like to know some of your opinions on the new Lindberg set.
    There area few places where the CPO shines more effective, but overall its a good set.
    Lindberg and his group are making big changes around the world. w/o this Pettersson Project, Pettersson would continue to be relegated to a dark corner.
    Think about it, the greatest symphonist, shoved into a dark forgotten place for decades after his passing.
    Humanity always has been sluggish in making new discoveries in great art.

    I hope and desire one day to send funds their way, and do my part. Hopefully others will join in.
    Ck out any of my posts here, and on amazon, let me know what you think of my views on Pettersson.
    I never listen to music radio these days, but I doubt there's much Petterson being played on the Danish radio, or performed here. Statistics seem to confirm this, sadly https://www.dr.dk/musik/kunstner/all...ettersson/9684

    My impression is that the state classical radio has reduced their level of ambition, but as said I haven't been following it for many years. A Pettersson- or Pettersson-and-other-stuff-festival event in Scandinavia might do the trick, but just a bit.

    I like Lindberg using a somwhat bigger orchestra in the String Concertos, the CPO recording is comparatively chamber-like. Still, it's not as big as Westerberg in the sole concerto he recorded.

    I still prefer Kamu in the 6th to Lindberg, but I haven't heard much else Lindberg. I had hoped that his 9th would be slow like Comissiona's, but judging from reviews/playing time, it isn't. I'm pretty sure though Lindberg has good qualities and things to say, compared to the CPO ones ... IMO, Pettersson would often gain by tempi not being too rushed for too much of the time.
    Last edited by joen_cph; May-06-2019 at 14:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Wow, it's touching, and surprising, to see someone expressing their love of a composer's music in this way: very human, very personally, without any distracting historical overview, and without using an impersonal "arena" of historical comparison. Rave on, brother. We can all learn something from you, or be reminded of what this forum could be.
    Hi well you asked for a simple answer and geta very long winded answer, I know you mentioned that you saw my comments on amazon.
    So you already know how I feel about Pettersson's music.
    Every year, these comments will expand, broaden, deepen widen. Its called the transformation process as per carl Jung,
    To stagnate is death.

    I mean at this moment, i'd have to re-read what I wrote above,,,often I have no recollection of exactly what I said.

    I might make footnotes to the above,,,Let me get on to the Joen's comments, he seems to have good understanding of the music/tempos/textures,,,more so that I.
    Pettersson is the only composer I have almost no ultra criticism on dif recordings, Which is unusual for me, as that is my 30+ year hobby.
    Last edited by paulbest; May-06-2019 at 17:14.

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    I might make footnotes to the above,,,Let me get on to the Joen's comments, he seems to have good understanding of the music/tempos/textures,,,more so that I.
    Not very likely I'm just a music collector like many people here, not a musician (and I don't claim to know all the symphonies by heart).

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    Quote Originally Posted by joen_cph View Post
    I never listen to music radio these days, but I doubt there's much Petterson being played on the Danish radio, or performed here. Statistics seem to confirm this, sadly https://www.dr.dk/musik/kunstner/all...ettersson/9684

    My impression is that the state classical radio has reduced their level of ambition, but as said I haven't been following it for many years. A Pettersson- or Pettersson-and-other-stuff-festival event in Scandinavia might do the trick, but just a bit.

    I like Lindberg using a somwhat bigger orchestra in the String Concertos, the CPO recording is comparatively chamber-like. Still, it's not as big as Westerberg in the sole concerto he recorded.

    I still prefer Kamu in the 6th to Lindberg, but I haven't heard much else Lindberg. I had hoped that his 9th would be slow like Comissiona's, but judging from reviews/playing time, it isn't. I'm pretty sure though Lindberg has good qualities and things to say, compared to the CPO ones ... IMO, Pettersson would often gain by tempi not being too rushed for too much of the time.
    You offer great info here, You have good perception as for best tempos in Pettersson, *not too rushed*...Remember there are over 200+ recordings of Beethoven syms, most have issues, MOST!!!!
    The really only keepers are Bruno Walter and a few others. I am only bringing Beethoven up as a compare, due too the quite simple straight forward nature of all Beethoven's works,. Evena youth orchestra has some degree of success in Beethoven. Jean Sibelius also is quite simple and esay on both conductor and orchestra, Its straight forward,,Yet it does have its issues, Only Berglund has mastered all the syms successfully, Segerstam took it twice and even he has issues getting Sibelius right = there are problems with Sibelius scores

    ,,now back to Pettersson, EVEN MORESO with Pettersson are there incredible difficulities. For this reason even the finest conductors won't go near Pettersson.
    1) where will they find time to give proper study to the scores?
    2) where will they find a orch which can handle the great difficulities in all the syms ?

    3) who will fund the project?

    4) etc, etc, ETC, = ain;'t gonna happen.

    Lindberg's cycle will stand alone for a very long period of time.
    ]
    The only conductor living today who could make a success of the cycle, would be Salonen,,, perhaps the young british conductor Harding., who has great success in the 7th.


    Can Salonen take time off to devote to Pettersson?
    No, as he already has commitments stacked up next 3,4,5 years ahead.


    I am about to unpack my boxes of cds, as I just moved,,I will compare the CPO and BIS next week as time allows
    Last edited by paulbest; May-06-2019 at 17:44.

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    Quote Originally Posted by messiaenfanatic View Post
    I have recently finished listening to Petterson's Symphony No. 8 and I am listening to Symphony No. 10 right now. I do not understand why this composer is so under recorded? Is it because his works are dark and moody sounding? His works definitely have a tonal center to them. I find Symhony No. 8 of Pettersson's to definitely be one of my favorite symphonies; that is No. 8 in the middle half of the 20th Century. I need to listen to every symphony of his. Does anyone else enjoy listening to Pettersson's works? If so which ones?


    The reason why Pettersson is not often recorded,,,considering Beethoven has over
    ~~~200+ recordings to date,,,more on the way~~~~~

    The reason why very few conductors are willing to approach Pettersson

    1) they may feel, the music is not connecting,,,or they are not connecting with the music. = out of sync, , =poor performance
    2) The conductor would love to conduct Pettersson but he is not sure where he will find a orch willing to commit to the demands of the practice , committed to carrying the project all the way through = some members may not feel they have the virtuoso talents to make a success = if only a few members are not up to the task , the whole project suffers = dud performance
    3) resources = The Money, =which donors will fund the project? = What is it going to cost,,,with orchestras on the brink of bankruptcy,,its best to play if safe and easy and play whats only popular
    I could extent the list on and on.
    But at least you get the main reasons why Pettersson can not be recorded,,unless there is a sponsor with cash.
    The 8th is a major section within the sym 2-15 cycle.

    As I hear the syms, seems the 2-15 can be considered one complete sym, taken as a whole. It is like 1 symphony with ,,,14 movements involved.
    I am sure Lindberg may disagree with this idea,,but then again other experts may chime in and agree in part with my assessment.
    Now with which other composers can we imagine composing a 14 movement Symphony?
    Taking a entire lifetime?
    For this reason, I believe Pettersson is the greatest symphonist ever,,,or at least equal to Schnittke.

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  18. #102
    Senior Member science's Avatar
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    Is there an easily accessible recording of the complete 24 barefoot songs?
    Liberty for wolves is death to the lambs.

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    I'm the biggest Schnittke fan you'll ever meet, but have yet to explore Pettersson in-depth. Paulbest's "at least equal to Schnittke" assertion peaks my interest; will have to report back in a week or so.
    Last edited by Portamento; May-08-2019 at 04:35.

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  21. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portamento View Post
    I'm the biggest Schnittke fan you'll ever meet, but have yet to explore Pettersson in-depth. Paulbest's "at least equal to Schnittke" assertion peaks my interest; will have to report back in a week or so.
    Oh, I'm so happy to read this! Please check out his 7th symphony!
    Liberty for wolves is death to the lambs.

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  23. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by science View Post
    Is there an easily accessible recording of the complete 24 barefoot songs?
    Here are some:
    https://www.amazon.com/Barefoot-Song.../dp/B01AXMLWTM
    http://allanpettersson100.blogspot.c...oot-songs.html

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