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Robert Schumann

78K views 468 replies 119 participants last post by  Neo Romanza 
#1 ·
The poetic genius, and, when it comes down to it, the greatest Romantic in music history. He was born into a bookseller's family, for goodness' sake. So really, what do all of you think of Robert Schumann?

He was amazing at his piano miniatures and pieces for one instrument and piano, especially voice, with which he effectively became the successor to Schubert as the great songwriter of the century.

His symphonies and concerti are very poetic and romantic, but the scoring and orchestration are terrible. Beyond that, I really see nothing wrong at all with Schumann.

And for those of you who can't get over the fact that he had multiple personalities, get over it. If all you can think of is his mental state... my case is settled.
 
#377 ·
Ah, Dresden and Sawallisch. This conductor and orchestra was my introduction to Schubert, who became one of my favorites. I'll give this a listen in the morning.

I listened to Bernstein with Vienna performing the 1st earlier and liked it. Enjoying a bit of a Bernstein kick lately. Never cared for him up until a couple months ago.
 
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#383 ·
Ah, Dresden and Sawallisch. This conductor and orchestra was my introduction to Schubert, who became one of my favorites. I'll give this a listen in the morning.

I listened to Bernstein with Vienna performing the 1st earlier and liked it. Enjoying a bit of a Bernstein kick lately. Never cared for him up until a couple months ago.
I have collected lots of Bernstein. It goes without saying he was an excellent conductor. I like best of all his many recordings with the VPO, and I especially like his Mahler 5. Another great recording of his is Zimerman/VPO performing Brahms PC2. It stands out from the crowd.

For Schubert, whatever you do avoid Karajan. He makes Schubert sound like Beethoven, and that will never do. Again, as with Schumann, I generally prefer period bands. For the "Unfinished" Symphony, Roger Norrington/London Classical Players is a fine performance. For the "Great" C Major, the sheer elegance and drive of Colin Davis/Staatskapelle Dresden is probably my favourite version.
 
#379 · (Edited)
Here's another vote for Wolfgang Sawallisch and the Staatskapelle Dresden, an orchestra that historically was conducted by Schumann and premiered works by him: . By the way, the set was remastered when the Japanese hybrid SACDs came out, so I'd try to buy the most recent release, or better yet buy the Japan hybrid SACD set, if you afford it, as you'll want the best sound quality that you can get for this set, IMO (as not all of the earlier EMI issues were optimal).

I'd also recommend Rafael Kubelik on either DG, with the Berlin Philharmonic, or CBS/Sony with the Bavarian RSO. The latter cycle has the better sound quality:





On period instruments, Gardiner's cycle is exceptional:


Finally, there's a highly regarded 1953 Schumann 4th Symphony from conductor Wilhelm Fürtwangler & the Berlin Philharmonic:

My two cents.
 
#380 ·
Thanks for that, I think y'all have made my choice for me :D The set can be had new for under $10 too. Going to check out Kubelik's a bit before I pull the trigger.

Has no one heard Bernstein with Vienna? I know his Vienna recordings are seen by some as lesser, and held in extremely high regard by some others.
 
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#381 · (Edited)
I've been a big fan of Schumann for a long time, and have collected quite a few symphony sets based largely of recommendations I've picked up along the way. Among the best in my view are (in no particular order):

1. Certainly, the Wolfgang Sawallisch/Staatskapelle Dresden set is excellent.

2. There's a more recent set by the Staatskapelle Dresden conducted by Christian Thielemann. This set works out at slightly longer than the Sawallish version. I acquired it because I spotted it recently as the latest recommended set.

3. David Zinman/Zurich Tonhalle Orchestra.

4. Daniel Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin.

5. John Eliot Gardiner/Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique.

6. Giuseppe Sinopoli/Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra

From the above, for the best of the individual symphonies, I'd go for a cocktail: No 1 (Zinman); No 2 (Gardiner); No 3 (Gardiner); No 4 (Barenboim).

As a set, I guess I like the John Eliot Gardiner/Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique best of all, because it's a period instrument orchestra, and conducted by one of my favourites. I like the sound of this orchestra, and I think that Gardiner does an especially good job getting round the balance problems that used to be quite a common critcism of Schumann's orchestration. There's nothing "mushy" about any of it.
 
#382 ·
I took a look at the Gardiner version, and was pleased to see that it includes the original 1841 version of the 4th in D minor. I have the Gardiner Beethoven, and the sound is exquisite, especially the strings. I guess it's the gut strings, but it sounds so smooth, not "icy." I think this will be on my "to get" list.

 
#385 ·
Noted, I will check the VC. I haven't heard terribly many of his works.

Yes I love the Wunderlich/Giesen Dichterliebe. It is my favorite recording of any Lieder. I'll have to check Brendel with Dietrich as well.

As for Schubert symphonies, I'm currently working through Blomstedt/Dresden which I really like. I don't like Karajan's Schubert either, but I do like Kleiber's. He doesn't quite paint a picture of Schubert as Beethoven, but he comes close. He takes it quite aggressively. It works, though, and his Unfinished is amazing.

Back to Schumann. I listened to S. Richter's incredible C major fantasy this morning. So good.

Has anyone heard the Matthias Goerne/Leif Ove Andsnes Liederkreis? Not bad at all.

 
#388 · (Edited)
Loads of Schumann symphony cycle recommendations in the thread linked below, Flamencosketches. As far as Bernstein is concerned, although I'm not a fan of some of his later VPO recordimgs his VPO Schumann set is very impressive. Loads of great cycles out there (Ive bought two in the last week) but I'm a Sawallisch fan in Schumann. An utterly magical cycle. You can usually pick up a very good Schumann cycle for less than £5 pre-owned. My last 3 sets have cost me £6 in total and all are excellent. For a super cheap but very good starter set for less than £2 (NEW!) go on ebay and grab Semkow's 70s St Louis cycle. If you have slightly bigger funds (but you won't need that much) then Sawallisch and Dohnanyi are great, as are Levine (both), Harnoncourt, Kubelik , Bernstein, Tilson Thomas, etc. I like Zinman and Ticciati's cycles a lot too but Itullian isn't a fan of lighter Schumann..... Isn't that right Itullian?

Schumann's symphonies
 
#392 · (Edited)
This is the last piece of Schumann I enjoyed



Inon Barnatan, piano
Julian Rachlin, viool
Torleif Thedéen, cello

The G minor trio is magnificent. Always in the last three movements but the first sometimes seems to me a bit heavy and romantic, which I dislike: this performance make it sound light and elegant.

The last movement reminded me of some of the more crazy waltzes in Papillons. Dances, partitas of dances, is a really central thing in Schumann, this in a works where the sonata is dominant. You see how he worked in countercurrent.

Apart from that I've been listening to the recordings of the last two op 41 quartets that The New Music Quartet made, with great pleasure.
 
#393 · (Edited)
Wonderful to hear the Trio in G. Lovely performance. All three were really pouring it on in the 1st. ;) There were some dissonances of interest that I've never heard Schumann use before. Great sounding recording (especially through my favorite amp and headphones). Warm, alive and wonderful, the entire experience. Listen to the way Schumann used his themes among them. It's a miracle that any composer could write something as skillful and marvelous as this. His good friend Brahms had a lot to live up to. Tender and sensitive slow movement. Thanks to Mandryka for posting this. Members of the Trio seemed ideally matched. Loved the uplifting joy in the final movement. Schumann just shot up a few more points on my personal list of greats. Bravo to everyone, including myself for taking the time to hear this.
 
#395 ·
Is anyone familiar with this 6CD set on EMI?



Featuring Sviatoslav Richter, Jean-Philippe Collard, Christian Zacharias, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Leif Ove Andsnes, Yuri Egorov, Jonathan Biss, and a few more I have not heard of. Talk about a star-studded cast.

Anyway, I have the opportunity to get it for $7, should I go for it? Had I not JUST gotten the Murray Perahia plays Schumann 6CD set, I would have pulled the trigger already. What a steal... any feedback?

I just got done listening to the Spring symphony from Leonard Bernstein's Schumann symphonies cycle with Vienna. Really liked it, but found it a little derivative of Beethoven and Schubert. Don't know if anyone is with me on that, but I will continue listening to these and see if my opinion changes (I'm sure it will).

Schumann has gone from being a composer I didn't care about much at all to a favorite, very quickly. He had such an original voice, and his music really hits me on a primal level. Possibly no lesser than Chopin or Beethoven as a piano composer, although I will concede that his piano music may be less idiomatic than that of those two, due to the fact that he stopped playing piano seriously at a pretty young age. But then there's much more than the piano music. The next step, I think, is get more into the chamber music. I've heard and really enjoyed his A major string quartet.

Many thanks to a few users here for pointing me in the right direction with his music :cheers:
 
#398 ·
Via that Perahia Schumann box I mentioned, I have obtained ops. 92 and 134 in addition to the big op.54 concerto. I will in time check out that violin concerto. If for no other reason than that I'm very curious about why it was considered so "insane" for so many years.

Well I pulled the trigger on that Schumann piano music box, along with a CD of his piano trios with the Florestan Trio on Hyperion, and the Piano Quintets on Naxos with Jenö Jandó and the Kodály Quartet, and then also from the same seller I got a CD of Jessye Norman singing Brahms Lieder. Got this all for under $20, shipping included, which is pretty amazing, less than $2 per CD. Very excited about all this, though I have to say I am going to be burnt out on Schumann in the near future. :lol:
 
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#399 ·
Via that Perahia Schumann box I mentioned, I have obtained ops. 92 and 134 in addition to the big op.54 concerto. I will in time check out that violin concerto. If for no other reason than that I'm very curious about why it was considered so "insane" for so many years.

Well I pulled the trigger on that Schumann piano music box, along with a CD of his piano trios with the Florestan Trio on Hyperion, and the Piano Quintets on Naxos with Jenö Jandó and the Kodály Quartet, and then also from the same seller I got a CD of Jessye Norman singing Brahms Lieder. Got this all for under $20, shipping included, which is pretty amazing, less than $2 per CD. Very excited about all this, though I have to say I am going to be burnt out on Schumann in the near future. :lol:
I have several version of the Piano Quintet, but not the Jenö Jandó/Kodály Quartet version. If you like this work, it might be worth trying some other recordings for comparison.

My collection comprises:
  • Leif Ove Andsnes (piano)/Artemis Quartet
  • Maria João Pires, Augustin Dumay, Renaud Capuçon, Gérard Caussé, Jian Wang
  • Martha Argerich (piano), Rene Capucon (violin), Lida Chen (viola), Gauthier Capucon (cello)
  • Paul Gulda (piano), Hagen Quartett
  • Marc-André Hamelin (piano), Takács Quartet
I'd say the best is the first one, but the Martha Argerich version is also good. I'm less keen on the others.
 
#400 ·
I'm a big fan of what I've heard of Jandó. His playing is very objective, if that makes any sense at all. And I like the Kodály Quartet too. I think that CD was like $1.50 or something ridiculous like that so I just tacked it onto the order. May have to check out the Argerich too as I'm a big fan of hers. I actually already have the Hamelin/Takács too, I'm just realizing, but I haven't listened to it. I listened to the A major string quartet on the same disc earlier and it's a pretty great performance.

Who has made the best CD with all three string quartets? I see the Fine Arts Quartet on Naxos, looks promising.

Also excited about those trios. The Florestan Trio is pretty great.
 
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#401 ·
I'm a big fan of what I've heard of Jandó. His playing is very objective, if that makes any sense at all. And I like the Kodály Quartet too. I think that CD was like $1.50 or something ridiculous like that so I just tacked it onto the order. May have to check out the Argerich too as I'm a big fan of hers. I actually already have the Hamelin/Takács too, I'm just realizing, but I haven't listened to it. I listened to the A major string quartet on the same disc earlier and it's a pretty great performance.

Who has made the best CD with all three string quartets? I see the Fine Arts Quartet on Naxos, looks promising.

Also excited about those trios. The Florestan Trio is pretty great.
Piano Quintet Op 44 - When I compared my versions of the Piano Quintet, I did so by quickly switching back and forth using foobar media player. This shows up differences that might not be so easily identified just by listening to each on it own. They differ on a variety of things like the volume between the instruments, timbre of the instruments, whether the microphones are too close/far, speed, etc. Some of them sounded too much "in yer face". I reckon the Leif Ove Andsnes version achieves the best all round result.

String Quartets Op 41 - The version of the 3 SQs I have is by Hagen Quartett. SQs 2 and 3 are on one CD, and SQ1 is on another CD with the Piano Quintet (Paul Gulda). I used to have other versions but when I looked on my foobar listing this is all I now have. I reckon I must have discarded the others, or not bothered to rip them from CD to WAV.
 
#406 ·
I wonder why that is, Schumann generally facing neglect from listeners. Changing tastes, maybe?

I would definitely rate him as one of the greats.
Fortunately Schumann is very much at the absolute centre of the repertoire: there's a specific group of "accepted" Schumann works that keep appearing in concert programmes all the time. The symphonies and concertos, many piano and chamber works, maybe stuff like Szenes aus Goethe's Faust.

But at the same time, there's a huge amount of pieces that get very little attention - if any! Not everything is a masterpiece, but that's beside the point: it's just really fascinating that a composer of Schumann's stature can be so badly known among the general public. Especially the vocal works need so much more exposure!
 
#410 ·
For me, his Fourth Symphony is the apotheosis. I love that music.
 
#413 ·
Yep, I'm a big fan of Schubert and Mendelssohn's chamber music. As I believe I mentioned in another thread, though, Schubert chamber music has been off-putting to me for some reason lately. A lot of it has just been hitting my ears as overlong and meandering. Sometimes, when I'm in a more receptive phase for this stuff, I really, really enjoy Schubert's string quintet, his piano trios, and his late quartets, especially the G major. But I just can't do it lately; I don't know why.

As for Mendelssohn, I love his Octet and his piano trios, but haven't heard his quartets.
 
#414 · (Edited)
Be sure to try this, which I thought was a revelation

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In the booklet Eriikka Maalismaa wrote

Schumann and period instruments
These tracks have been recorded on an 1862 Erard grand piano. Sébastien
Erard was one of the most significant, if not the most significant, piano maker
of his time, whose numerous inventions from the 1820s onwards gradually
transformed the fortepiano into the modern grand piano we know today.
From a pianist's point of view, the period between the 1830s and 1890s is an extremely interesting one. This was a time when various piano companies - some
of which are still in business - were in active competition, coming up with their
own technical solutions, plagiarizing each other, or doggedly holding on to traditional principles. This pluralism was significantly influenced by the numerous pianist-composers of the day, among them Robert Schumann.
In order to conceptualize and interpret the piano literature of this period,
it is imperative to be aware of the contrasting and highly developed timbral
characteristics of its instruments. This forces the performer to avoid the
temptation of defining the sound through the features of the modern piano. The Schumanns didn't own an Erard grand piano, a high-end luxury
instrument of its day, but Erards were the primary concert instrument choice
of numerous pianists, including Liszt. It is likely that Clara Schumann and
Joseph Joachim performed the violin sonatas on instruments much like the
ones we use on this recording.
At the time of writing, it is not yet common to perform Schumann's music
on period instruments (although, fortunately, highly accomplished performances do exist!), and so it is pertinent to draw attention to how dissimilar these instruments are to their contemporary offspring. The Erard grand
piano I play on is extremely agile, with a brilliant tone, but a big sound or wide dynamic range are not among its attributes. Musical gestures speak in
expressive, short-lived moments on this instrument, which is why one has
to inspect Schumann's markings closely and utilize all dynamic, tempo, and
timbral means available in shaping the resulting sound. Certain expressive
devices used by Baroque musicians have proved helpful: for example, chord
arpeggiation is a useful tool for balancing and creating dynamic variation.
Another characteristic feature of the Erard heard on this recording is its
sluggish damping rate which creates a specific kind of distortion around the
pitches. This can sometimes be a challenge when seeking clarity in complex,
articulated textures, but it also assists in painting wondrous musical landscapes in dusky outlines. - Emil Holmström
The first time I truly immersed myself in the world of unvarnished gut strings
was when I took part in the founding of the Ristiveto Festival in Helsinki, with
the uncommon objective of performing late Romantic and early modernist
repertoire on period instruments. The unfamiliar touch appealed to me immediately, and I noticed that my 250-year-old violin adapted to the change very
well. There was a human quality to the multifaceted and warm, nuanced timber,
while altering my playing technique felt like an ongoing pleasant challenge.
With unvarnished gut strings, the tone doesn't come to you for free, and
they are quick to punish any careless or too forceful attempts. The dynamic
range, especially on the high E string, is limited, and the modern way of playing with a high degree of pressure tends to break the tone. Fortunately, the
Erard grand piano is the perfect companion within this softer sound world.
Schumann's sonatas were relatively unknown territory for me until Emil
and I decided, in 2016, to tackle all three of them as one project. These works - which are not particularly attractive to most violinists - take their time to
grow on you. Playing the sonatas of Beethoven and Brahms can be more immediately rewarding, as they do greater justice to the violin's bright, singing
qualities. Schumann, on the other hand, loves to dwell in the middle register,
and his melodic writing can shift abruptly into a thorny dance. Yet, at the
end, I have completely lost myself to this music. All the inner turmoil, restlessness and struggle make the inherent beauty and ecstasy all the greater.
The music lives in this moment, not as something to be admired from afar.
The middle movement of the first sonata is a winding and chattering song,
simple and friendly. It is followed by the much more peculiar finale: like
the stern hammering and yakking of a relentless machine, which gets interrupted by an enraptured and quintessentially Schumann-esque triplet-based
theme. The first movement brings to mind, at the risk of cliché, a tempestuous sea, an ever higher reaching wave. The second sonata is a long and solemn magnum opus, an aptly named Grosse Sonate. Its expansive, sturdy outer
movements bookend middle movements soaked in fantasy. The piano part
of the slow movement floats at times into outer space, enriching the simple
melody. The trio sections of the Scherzo create an intimate atmosphere and
bring comfort in the midst of all the violent hammering.
It is the third sonata - like a wounded animal, patched up in bandages -
that has become the nearest to both our hearts. Hidden away by Clara Schumann, this last extensive composition by Robert has been written only moments before his confinement in a mental institution. The first movement,
while tearing itself apart, also introduces one of the most tender secondary
themes. On this recording, the sonatas are not ordered chronologically but
with an eye towards an effective concert program. - Eriikka Maalismaa
 
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#419 ·
Another excellent duo is the Op 113 Marchenbilder for viola & piano. This was also composed in 1851.
Like the violin sonatas, it has the name "Schumann" stamped all over it.

I've just had a quick check and would reckon the best version I have is by Rachel Roberts (viola), Lars Vogt (piano).
 
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