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Thread: Ravel

  1. #481
    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc View Post
    I found the music well constructed but fairly conventional and not really sounding like Ravel. Interesting to hear, but not music I've returned to.
    Thanks for the reply, tdc - this might explain why recordings are scarce.
    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

  2. #482
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    Ravel premiered his SQ , 1908 age 27
    Bartok's 1st SQ , 1911 , age 30.
    Interesting.
    There are hints of Ravel's in the 1st SQ. 1st movement.
    Both great SQ;s, Bartok went on to compose 5 more masterpieces in this genre.

  3. #483
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Ravel's string quartet is much more conventional than any of Bartok. I wonder how he can be held individually in so much esteem, with Debussy lurking so near.

    Ravel Musique de Chambre 200 dpi .jpg
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Aug-16-2019 at 00:02.
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  5. #484
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    Not sure what you mean.
    I just discovered Bartok, via superior records.
    Ravel 's SQ, I've not made any decisions as to rating records.
    I will look up this EMI you posted.
    have never seen it before.

  6. #485
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    Found IT
    The recording I was looking for.
    I have this cd in my collection, as it took hours and hours of reserach to discover
    I think this is a*very interesting* perf, if not my fav
    btw I did not like the EMI SQ group, something about either the cellist or viola.


  7. #486
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    The portamento is very nicely done, and the sound of the ensemble is warm and friendly. It somehow throws the music back into Edwardian times rather than make it look forward to today.

    If you’re interested in this sort of interpretation, then be sure to hear the Capet Quartet too, and the Galimir.

    By the way, I’m enjoying the Hagen’s 2000 DVD performance very much in this, the complete opposite of Calvet. The music can be far more interesting than just congenial and agreeable, if the musicians just dig a little. There are potentially disturbing passages of enormous expressiveness, darkness.
    Last edited by Mandryka; Aug-16-2019 at 06:15.

  8. #487
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    The differences between Bartok and Ravel: Ravel is always clearly tonal, Bartok is not.
    Bartok uses modern methods of approaching music, among which are: dividing the chromatic scale symmetrically, at the tritone, rather than the 4th or 5th as in tonal music.
    This tritone division is inherently 'unstable' or non-tonal, because the 5th is what gives triads stability.
    This emphasis on the tritone creates relations to whole tone scales (augmented sounds) and diminished scales (diminished and 6-note scales), which are tonally ambiguous.
    Thus, in Bartok, we will usually only hear "localized" points of "centricity" or tonal focus. This puts emphasis on motivic cells rather than whole areas of tonality.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

  9. #488
    Senior Member tdc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Ravel's string quartet is much more conventional than any of Bartok. I wonder how he can be held individually in so much esteem, with Debussy lurking so near.
    Probably because Ravel's music is so different than Debussy. Their String Quartets are worlds apart, certainly, the harmonic colors in Ravel are so unique and unlike any composer.

    Your statement is equivalent to asking how could Mozart be held individually in such esteem with Haydn lurking so near. If the two composers differences are not apparent to you, maybe the problem is with your ears.

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  11. #489
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    Nice posts of late,
    With the right artists both composers music come alive.
    I have the 1934 Calvet and offers something missing in other records. The cohessive-ness at times is lacking, so its not my 1st choice.
    The other historic record, Capet SQ , has a odd violinist , which does not work for me.
    I decided to ck one last time(having research all available many times past decade or so) for yet another interesting take on the Ravel and found this one , recorded back in 1987.
    Reissued several times.
    Ravel scored a very challenging SQ for artists.


    41C8cRxWNvL.jpg
    Last edited by paulbest; Aug-16-2019 at 22:39.

  12. #490
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    We should all list our top 3 best records of the Ravel. . .
    Last edited by paulbest; Aug-16-2019 at 23:19.

  13. #491
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc View Post
    Probably because Ravel's music is so different than Debussy. Their String Quartets are worlds apart, certainly, the harmonic colors in Ravel are so unique and unlike any composer.
    I'm looking at and hearing similarities between Debussy and Ravel, not differences.

    Your statement is equivalent to asking how could Mozart be held individually in such esteem with Haydn lurking so near. If the two composers differences are not apparent to you, maybe the problem is with your ears.
    I notice you used Mozart and Haydn together, as I did with Debussy and Ravel, so this means you understand exactly what I'm saying, but you are dedicated to approaching every composer as "unique." That's a noble sentiment, but doesn't "disprove" or invalidate my comparison.

    Debussy and Ravel: both French, both impressionists, both using ninth chords, harps, coloristic harmony, etc. (...but Ravel wasn't French...blah blah...)

    Why should we hold Debussy in any less esteem than Ravel? How can Paul Best focus in on Ravel like this, as if there is some great chasm of difference between Ravel and Debussy?

    Note that in post #489, the CD that Paul Best shows also includes Debussy. Obvious, obvious.
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Aug-17-2019 at 12:49.
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

    "I don't mind dying, as long as I can still breathe." ---Me

  14. #492
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    An interesting place to compare Debussy and Ravel is in the 3 Mallarmé settings.

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  16. #493
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    The Debussy SQ is very frequently paired with the Ravel,,,for reasons.
    I have always found listening to the 2 as reflections not contrasts.
    Debussy and Ravel seemed paired like Schoenberg/Berg.
    Or say Beethoven and Brahms.
    I really can not think of any moe pairings in history,,,well no, Bach, Vivaldi.
    Mozart's bright star with Haydn's tiny moon.
    But take Prokofiev and Shostakovich, no connections whatsoever.
    Sibelius and Pettersson, completely different solar systems.
    The Ravel /Debussy connection is the most notable in all CM history. (excepting the 3 2nd Viennese masters)
    Both are unique in their styles, yet centrically united in some unique way.

  17. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post
    Nice posts of late,
    With the right artists both composers music come alive.
    I have the 1934 Calvet and offers something missing in other records. The cohessive-ness at times is lacking, so its not my 1st choice.
    The other historic record, Capet SQ , has a odd violinist , which does not work for me.
    I decided to ck one last time(having research all available many times past decade or so) for yet another interesting take on the Ravel and found this one , recorded back in 1987.
    Reissued several times.
    Ravel scored a very challenging SQ for artists.


    41C8cRxWNvL.jpg

    Someone from TC must have taken my recommend, gone over to amazon and bought the last $20 copy,,,,,,i purchased 1 off ebay, under $20 and wanted a 2nd copy,,,but its gone ...Now i had to buy a 2nd and 3rd copy off ebay($10, dif release/budget label/not sure if it is the real deal,,and the other 3rd copy off amazon, different release, has the Smtena along with the Debussy.

    My plan is to scalp for a nice price in yrs to come..I plan to snap up all I can afford over the yrs.

  18. #495
    Senior Member Littlephrase1913's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbest View Post
    The Debussy SQ is very frequently paired with the Ravel,,,for reasons.
    I have always found listening to the 2 as reflections not contrasts.
    Debussy and Ravel seemed paired like Schoenberg/Berg.
    Or say Beethoven and Brahms.
    I really can not think of any moe pairings in history,,,well no, Bach, Vivaldi.
    Mozart's bright star with Haydn's tiny moon.
    But take Prokofiev and Shostakovich, no connections whatsoever.
    Sibelius and Pettersson, completely different solar systems.
    The Ravel /Debussy connection is the most notable in all CM history. (excepting the 3 2nd Viennese masters)
    Both are unique in their styles, yet centrically united in some unique way.
    Haydn’s tiny moon? You’ve gone too far with this one, Paul!

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