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Thread: Johann Sebastian Bach

  1. #166
    Senior Member guy's Avatar
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    The Kunst der Fuge is heaven expressed in open score :P

  2. #167
    Senior Member Winterreisender's Avatar
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    Hi Bach fans. Do any of you own the new(-ish) Gardiner box set of Bach Cantatas? If so, can you recommend it? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Cantata...=pd_sim_m_h__2

    I already have one complete recording (Pieter Jan Leusink on Brilliant) but I find it a little drab in places and am thinking of "upgrading." I have heard some excellent reviews of the Gardiner set, but £130 is quite a lot of money. Is it worth it?

    EDIT: Or is Helmuth Rilling a better option? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Can...=bach+cantatas
    Last edited by Winterreisender; Feb-05-2014 at 14:27.

  3. #168
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    Even Bach's secular compositions seem inspired by the glory of God. Listen to the chaconne for unaccompanied violin or the fugue from the C major unaccompanied violin sonata, the prelude and sarabande from the first keyboard partita, etc;
    Last edited by hpowders; Feb-05-2014 at 14:42.
    Facts don't care about your feelings.

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  5. #169
    Senior Member GioCar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterreisender View Post
    Hi Bach fans. Do any of you own the new(-ish) Gardiner box set of Bach Cantatas? If so, can you recommend it? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Cantata...=pd_sim_m_h__2

    I already have one complete recording (Pieter Jan Leusink on Brilliant) but I find it a little drab in places and am thinking of "upgrading." I have heard some excellent reviews of the Gardiner set, but £130 is quite a lot of money. Is it worth it?

    EDIT: Or is Helmuth Rilling a better option? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Can...=bach+cantatas
    IMO Gardiner is outstanding, but not complete. For the price I'd go with Rilling (very good as well, if I'm not wrong he was the first one to complete the full cycle) or wait for the Suzuki box set.
    Suzuki and his Bach Collegium Japan have just completed the cycle, their performance is overall the best for me but, at the moment, you can get only the separate CDs. Anyway I wouldn't surprised the box set to be available in a short time.
    Last edited by GioCar; Feb-05-2014 at 23:33.

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  7. #170
    Senior Member Itullian's Avatar
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    I'm waiting for the Suzuki too.
    When all else fails, listen to Thick as a Brick.

    "Life's a long song, but the tune ends too soon for us all." Ian Anderson lyric

    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

    "Man does not live by bread alone......"

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  9. #171
    Senior Member Winterreisender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GioCar View Post
    IMO Gardiner is outstanding, but not complete. For the price I'd go with Rilling (very good as well, if I'm not wrong he was the first one to complete the full cycle) or wait for the Suzuki box set.
    Suzuki and his Bach Collegium Japan have just completed the cycle, their performance is overall the best for me but, at the moment, you can get only the separate CDs. Anyway I wouldn't surprised the box set to be available in a short time.
    Thanks. I'm not too fussed about absolute completeness. I know the secular ones are missing, but Leusink covers these rather well, I think. Having looked through the Gardiner set online, I have spotted seven missing ones (BWV 29, 106, 118, 119, 120, 157 and 193). In each case, it seems to be because the cantata was written for either a funeral or a Ratswechsel and therefore doesn't fit into the liturgical calendar.

    I heard some reviews of Rilling saying his approach is a little too "Romantic." Not sure if that's true? Is Gardiner more "historically informed"? I lean towards Gardiner because I really like his other recordings (e.g. Handel). And I'm probably too impatient to wait for complete Suzuki!!

  10. #172
    Senior Member GioCar's Avatar
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    ^^^
    Well, I think they are both "historically informed" for the time they recorded the Cantata cycle, so IMO both are great but Gardiner has a more transparent "sound" if compared with Rilling.
    I like very much his Handel as well. The Messiah recorded for Philips 30 (or so) years ago is still possibly my favourite.
    For me Gardiner has almost no rivals in the articulation of the choral sections, and he has an outstanding "feeling" for the "right" tempos. That said, some of his Bach (i.e. the Mass in B min) is slighly less convincing to me. Re. the Cantatas, he did a great job indeed. From what I listened to, I like very much his clean but warm sound and articulations.
    So if you cannot wait for Suzuki's pathos, and don't mind not having the complete cycle I'd say to go with him.

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  12. #173
    Senior Member Itullian's Avatar
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    Rilling uses modern instruments and has some odd balances on some of the recordings.
    Nod definitely goes to Gardener between the two.
    When all else fails, listen to Thick as a Brick.

    "Life's a long song, but the tune ends too soon for us all." Ian Anderson lyric

    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

    "Man does not live by bread alone......"

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  14. #174
    Senior Member Bulldog's Avatar
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    Gardiner, Suzuki and Herreweghe are great options. I have a few of the Rilling/Bach cantatas discs and listened to each a few times. After that, they just gathered dust on the shelf so I found a different home for them. Rilling's pretty good, but I have so much better on hand.

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  16. #175
    Senior Member Winterreisender's Avatar
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    I've done the deed... ordered Gardiner on Amazon
    BachCantata.jpg

    Also bought this book from Alfred Dürr which contains all the texts as well as a nice write-up on each cantata. Not entirely how I can justify spending £50 on a paperback
    Bachs-Cantatas[Durr].jpg

    That should keep me busy for a while, anyway. I might try to listen to them all in the space of year, in order of liturgical function. And maybe I'll try Suzuki as well when it comes out. Thanks for the advice!

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  18. #176
    Senior Member shangoyal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterreisender View Post
    I've done the deed... ordered Gardiner on Amazon
    BachCantata.jpg

    Also bought this book from Alfred Dürr which contains all the texts as well as a nice write-up on each cantata. Not entirely how I can justify spending £50 on a paperback
    Bachs-Cantatas[Durr].jpg

    That should keep me busy for a while, anyway. I might try to listen to them all in the space of year, in order of liturgical function. And maybe I'll try Suzuki as well when it comes out. Thanks for the advice!
    That book sounds it's a bargain for 50 pounds!

  19. #177
    Senior Member Itullian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterreisender View Post
    I've done the deed... ordered Gardiner on Amazon
    BachCantata.jpg

    Also bought this book from Alfred Dürr which contains all the texts as well as a nice write-up on each cantata. Not entirely how I can justify spending £50 on a paperback
    Bachs-Cantatas[Durr].jpg

    That should keep me busy for a while, anyway. I might try to listen to them all in the space of year, in order of liturgical function. And maybe I'll try Suzuki as well when it comes out. Thanks for the advice!
    Congratulations!!!
    Great purchases.
    Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!
    When all else fails, listen to Thick as a Brick.

    "Life's a long song, but the tune ends too soon for us all." Ian Anderson lyric

    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

    "Man does not live by bread alone......"

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  21. #178
    nathanb
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    Did any of the big names mentioned like Suzuki or Gardiner perhaps compile some sort of "best of" from their cantata sets? I only have Joshua Rifkin's 6 favorite cantatas, and it's kind of intimidating to think that I have to listen to the set or seemingly pick random cantatas after the very basics (80/140/147/etc).

    I'm basically wondering if there's anything along the lines of what Scott Ross did with Scarlatti (a box set of 555 sonatas, and a selection of 19 of those sonatas).

  22. #179
    Senior Member Bulldog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneholocaust View Post
    Did any of the big names mentioned like Suzuki or Gardiner perhaps compile some sort of "best of" from their cantata sets? I only have Joshua Rifkin's 6 favorite cantatas, and it's kind of intimidating to think that I have to listen to the set or seemingly pick random cantatas after the very basics (80/140/147/etc).

    I'm basically wondering if there's anything along the lines of what Scott Ross did with Scarlatti (a box set of 555 sonatas, and a selection of 19 of those sonatas).
    Just wanted to mention that Rifkin's set is exceptional; you made a great choice.

  23. #180
    Senior Member Ravndal's Avatar
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    I'm looking for a good version of Die Kunst Der Fuge for piano. Any recommendations? I like Sokolov's, but the sound qual is a bit boring.
    "That as s."

    - Mark Twain

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