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Johann Sebastian Bach

82K views 427 replies 153 participants last post by  gprengel 
#1 ·
You all knew it would happen eventually: the most superfluous thread ever made for this board. The greatest contrapuntal genius of all time. I've heard it said that, while among the public there are Mahler cults, Sibelius cults, and Brahms cults, there is among the composers a Bach cult. Not to say there isn't a Bach cult among the public, it's just that the great composers all worshiped the guy. It is genuinely worthless to try singling out some of his greatest pieces; if you pick out about any five of the more than one thousand published works, I will guarantee that at least three, if not all, will be masterpieces.

Although *cough, cough* the B minor Mass is considered to be the greatest and most perfect composition ever written in history, not to mention the Art of Fugue, Goldberg Variations, several hundred choral works, preludes, solo violin sonatas, solo cello suites, violin concerti, transcriptions of other peoples' work, harpsichord concerti, Well-Tempered Clavier....
 
#7 · (Edited)
Soooo... ignoring the catfight...

Bach's music has a power that stretches beyond his time. The Baroque is my least favorite era, but I will always listen to Bach's wonderful keyboard, orchestral, choral, etc. works above those of many Romantic and modern composers.

Incidentally, one of my favorite books is Gödel, Escher, Bach by Douglas Hofstader. It's a nonfiction work which draws connections between philosophic logic, phenomenology, and the ethics of artificial intelligence within a musical-visual artistic-mathematical context. A truly fantastic work, which, for classical music lovers, offers some great new insights into Bach's fugues. BTW, the other two title figures are the mathematician Kurt Gödel (of Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem) and the great surreal artist M.C. Escher (known for his optical illusions).
 
#14 ·
My favorite thing about Bach is almost no one cared for him when he was around. Aside from the Brandenburg Concertos (or "Concerti") almost all of this other work was for his church position or for personal enjoyment. The man was one of the finest architects of music that has ever existed and his importance can never be understated.
 
#15 ·
I think it's rather odd that of the 14 posts on this thread, about half or more were about a "catfight" or utterly sarcastic remarks... oh well.

I still like his Chaconne above many other pieces, although his fugues are beyond genius.
 
#16 ·
I recently bought the complete works of Bach on Brilliantclassics and I have already listened to two thirds of the 155 CDs. By "listened", I mean that I sat, disconnected all phones, did not read anything, and listened.

Bach's music is breathtakingly beautiful and eternal. At least for me.

I do understand that others may question that, or be annoyed by Bach's undisputed status. I am myself annoyed with Mozart's undeserved status. I have a 30 y.o. French music encyclopedia, and the entry for Mozart starts with these words: [translation] "The greatest musician of all times." That, I really find annoying.
 
#17 ·
Laugh.

I find that post entertaining for a bunch of reasons.

I am debating between the Bach and Haydn brilliant sets since I have the Mozart one already. I have a fair amount of bach, but I think I want it all.

I have a hard time picking between Bach and Mozart, who, in my tiny little brain - represent at the very least, a substantial protrusion of unique genius into the world - not to mention original thought which is more rare than people believe. Apples and oranges however. It seems to me they are as far apart as one could possibly imagine - and yet both produce what I see as beauty incarnate. quite a feat.

Mozarts 'undeserved status'? (grin)... dont get me started. :D The man is unmatched. :p

A commoners pedestrian comment perhaps - but I think the Brandenburgs among the top handful of musical constructions I have ever heard. Bach was operating on an entirely different plane than everyone.
 
#19 ·
Well honestly, Bach pretty much single-handedly ended the Baroque era, as he was bringing every form to its utmost perfection (and the proof is indicated that the only form he never wrote in - opera - reached its utmost over 150 years after his death, in the works of people like Wagner and Richard Strauss.

I definitely place Bach on a higher level than Mozart, because even though Mozart was perfect in form and grace and beauty, Bach knew how to dispose with those and still make something utterly perfect in every way.
 
#20 ·
For me the most exciting Bach piece is the Cantata No. 80 Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott . A version I once had on tape used trumpets to good effect. I later learned that the trumpets were added by one of his sons, but they punctuate the proceedings so well.

One of the sectionss had marvelous trumpet trills that accentuate an almost dissonant section of the phrases. It just sounds weird for baroque and never failed to amaze me.

I do have a version of this Cantata in my collection, but a version that stays truer to the elder Bach's score, using oboes instead of trumpets. It's still fantastic, but I'd dearly love to get my hands on the more bombastic version. It may even have had timpani, but I may be misremembering.

I'd would easily put J. S. Bach in the category, if not the greatest composer, of having the greatest body of work. Those "complete works" series tempt me so, but I know my Bach collection can never be complete until I no longer hear. I have yet to hear The Art of the Fugue played on banjo and tuba ensemble for instance.

Inicidentally, have we all settled on BWV now instead of S for the catalog numbers? It was "S." when I first got into Bach.
 
#27 ·
On the subject of the Brilliant Classics collections, which would you think is better for someone just starting in classical music, The Mozart Collection, Beethoven Collection, or Bach Collection?

Bach is definitely one of the greatest geniuses. I was reading about him and prior to my reading I had no idea that he actually developed the, was it the well tempered system? Sorry I forgot the name.

Not only was he a musical genius, but a mathematical genius considering he came up with so many theoretical rules which are very mathematical. Well, in my opinion at least.
 
#28 ·
On the subject of the Brilliant Classics collections, which would you think is better for someone just starting in classical music, The Mozart Collection, Beethoven Collection, or Bach Collection?
Well I'm slightly partial to Bach (read: I basically revere almost everything the man wrote), so I'll put my vote in for him. But there is, I think, a good reason.

Mozart wrote masterpieces in basically every genre, and Haydn' symphonies, string quartets, oratorios, and masses are divine compositions. But both Mozart and Haydn wrote a lot of mediocre music. Many of Mozart's divertimenti and serenades, for example, would by complimented if I called them easy listening pieces. The same goes for some of Haydn's piano sonatas.

With Bach, though, almost everything he wrote has some merit. True, he didn't have a perfect batting average, but his great work/poor work ratio is far higher than that of other composers.

So go ahead, flame me if your a Wolfgangist or a Franz Josephile...but that's my two cents.
 
#32 ·
he is right up there. Frequently the 'top 3' are bach, beethoven, mozart in no particular order. Then... depending on who you talk to, Tchaikovsky, Handel, Haydn, ... etc etc... but it not worth trying to pinpoint which one is right for you. Again, I dont think you could go wrong with any of those sets.

I think your idea is a good one. Try a few pieces and see which ones you like, then dig in. Dont just 'look them up'... go listen to some.
 
#36 ·
I despise Bach. Way overrated in my opinion, but then again I hate the Baroque period anyway.
 
#38 ·
The composer. The jury is still out on you. :D
 
#39 ·
J.S. Bach is the greatest. I'm in good company thinking this:

# "The immortal god of harmony" -- Ludwig van Beethoven
# "The most stupendous miracle in all music" -- Richard Wagner
# "Study Bach: there you will find everything" -- Johannes Brahms
# "To strip human nature until its divine attributes are made clear, to inform ordinary activities with spiritual fervor, to give wings of eternity to that which is most ephemeral; to make divine things human and human things divine; such is Bach, the greatest and purest moment in music of all time" -- Pablo Casals
# "O you happy sons of the North who have been reared at the bosom of Bach, how I envy you" -- Giuseppe Verdi
# "If one were asked to name one musician who came closest to composing without human flaw, I suppose general consensus would choose Johann Sebastian Bach" -- Aaron Copland
# "If Bach is not in Heaven, I am not going!" -- William F. Buckley
# "I would vote for Bach, all of Bach, streamed out into space. But this would be bragging" -- Biologist Lewis Thomas, on what message to send to an extraterrestrial civilization
# "Bach almost persuades me to be a Christian" -- Roger Fry
# "Why waste money on psychotherapy when you can listen to the B Minor Mass?" -- Michael Torke
 
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#42 ·
I am a little bit undecided on the comparison between Bach and Beethoven as I hold each one very dearly, Can we fairly compare two different styles and periods ? Beethoven's missa solemnis IMHO is not even in the same class as Bach's MagnificatBWV243a, also how can we compare String Quartets, Symphonies etc
 
#43 ·
And most importantly, Beethoven didn't even wear a wig (during the important years)!
 
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