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Thread: Similar conductor to Furtwangler

  1. #46
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    Barenboim closely identified with Furtwangler, also. Whatever his faults, I don't think that WF has ever been surpassed, in what we have, remaining, of his Bruckner interpretations.

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  3. #47
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    Furtwangler was Jochum's idol, & I agree that Jochum closely emulated Furtwangler in his conducting style. You can hear it in Jochum's expressive shifts of tempo, which are similar to Furtwangler's. However, Jochum's conducting style tends to be more classically restrained than Furtwangler's, even in Bruckner. He's not as wildly expressionistic a conductor. I actually prefer Jochum's conducting for this reason, because I find a similar depth of musical insight (to Furtwangler's), but with greater restraint, & especially in Jochum's best composers, such as Bruckner, Schubert, Wagner, Beethoven, Brahms, & Orff. I also tend to prefer a lighter, more classical approach to the heavy late Romantic Teutonic style that Brahms once complained about to the young Pierre Monteux--saying that he preferred the lighter approach of French conductors in his music. Listening to Furtwangler or Böhm in Brahms, it's easy to understand Brahms' preference, & especially in comparison to some of Monteux's live Brahms recordings, which are different in approach (& more spontaneous sounding and exciting than Monteux's studio Brahms for Decca). To my ears, the late Germanic style seems to work better in Wagner and Bruckner, not surprisingly.

    For a more expressionistic conductor, like Furtwangler, you'd have to find another conductor that studied Schenkerian musical analysis as extensively & seriously as Furtwangler did. & I'm not sure who that might be. Although Heinrich Schenker himself studied harmony with Anton Bruckner, so some of his ideas may have come directly from Bruckner. Which may help to explain why Furtwangler and Jochum were both such great Bruckner (Wagner & Schubert) conductors. Hence, are there any notable conductors that studied under Bruckner, I wonder?

    Off the top of my head, I'd say that Hermann Scherchen, Hans Knappertsbusch, Oswald Kabasta, Serge Koussevitzky, Leopold Stokowski, Sergui Celibidache, Carlo Maria Giulini, Igor Markevitch, Sandor Vegh, Yvgeny Mravinsky, Eduard van Beinum, and Eugen Jochum are all conductors that you might want to seek out (I don't know Abendroth's conducting).

    Personally, I prefer Kabasta, Scherchen, Kempen, & the young Bernstein in Beethoven's 3rd to Furtwangler. While Koussevitzky has the nerve to expressively hold the 'death note' at the end of third movement of Beethoven's 5th even longer than Furtwangler does! (on one of his Boston recordings, though I forget which one it is, sorry). You can't miss it, with either conductor (unlike most of the period conductors, who don't even know it's there--with the one exception being Harnoncourt, but only in his 2nd recording on period instruments).

    --Beethoven 3rd Symphony, "Eroica":

    Kabasta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb1beCYk-MM
    Scherchen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TinMwzbsMlY
    Kempen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7hGZBGO6NE
    Bernstein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AQ4ATAvAcU

    Furtwangler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD3q2cLf8D8
    Jochum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UReKHiiv0M

    --Beethoven 5th Symphony:

    Furtwangler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bOxcryX1VE
    Koussevitzky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXt7DH3A_YA
    Jochum (you'll have to click on the 5th below the picture, if interested): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkRjVDpzl_Y
    Haitink: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiTud0DE6Cg
    Harnoncourt (period instruments): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C75ORGN0iz4

    --Beethoven 2nd Symphony: Here, I prefer Beinum, Kubelik, & Harnoncourt to Furtwangler, since the 2nd Symphony doesn't do well with the Schenkarian analysis treatment, IMO (it's too mercurial),

    Beinum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcAC68zpTm0
    Furtwangler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2eSq-7mhNw
    Kubelik: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eAMU7k7UhM
    Harnoncourt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YpS...PxiVEv&index=5

    --One surprisingly interesting comparison to make, IMO, is Furtwangler's actual 1951 Bayreuth concert performance of Beethoven's 9th (not the dress rehearsal on EMI, but the Orfeo recording) versus one of Herbert Blomstedt's two 1980s Staatskapelle Dresden 9ths. Obviously, Blomstedt is slightly more classical in his approach, but I find some similarities between these performances. They have a similar expressive drive. I think they are both great 9ths; although, believe it nor not, I actually prefer Blomstedt in this symphony (the better sound helps, of course),

    Furtwangler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHDXdbSWu0E
    Blomstedt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy3R6Drn-YU

    Finally, I agree that Daniel Barenboim has been influenced by Furtwangler, but I don't think he pulls it off to the same degree. Rather, Barenboim's conducting often just ends up sounding imprecise, to me.
    Last edited by Josquin13; Oct-18-2021 at 18:23.

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  5. #48
    Senior Member joen_cph's Avatar
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    Mengelberg has been mentioned already, one of the most fascinating in his musicianship ever.

    Golovanov, possibly also, but less disciplined.

    Mitropoulos, maybe.

    And I recently heard some Mahler by Vaclav Jiracek, the 6th & Das Lied, very uneven, but at times astounding phrasings.

    Rodzinski, at times.
    Last edited by joen_cph; Oct-18-2021 at 19:20.

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