Likes Likes:  0
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Beethoven Symph.#6 with female voice

  1. #1
    Newbies
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Beethoven Symph.#6 with female voice

    Hi there,
    A while ago I heard in a coffee shop a beautiful rendition of the last movement of Beethoven's 6th symphony. As far as I can tell, it was played by an orchestra, but the main melody was sung by a female singer instead of played by instruments. It was such a brief moment and I don't have any other clues. But it has stuck in my head ever since. Can anyone tell me what recording this might have been? Thanks for your help.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    215
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    dunno, that's a tough one, because i don't think any person(serious musicians) who has even the slightest respect for Beethoven would do something so horrible as to "rewrite" or "rearrange" Beethoven's music.

  3. #3
    Newbies
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I don't necessarily agree with you on this, Gustav. For example, Dmitri Mitropoulos and Leonard Bernstein, definitely serious musicians, were in favor of "rearranging" Beethoven's C# minor string quartet but I don't think they were disrespectful to Beethoven. Schubert's "Death and Maiden" rearranged by Mahler (your hero yes?) also comes to mind.

    But I can understand the purist sentiment. In fact, the Vienna Phil members were against the idea of playing the C# minor quartet when Bernstein initially proposed it (they eventually liked it, hence that awesome recording).
    Anyways, I appreciate your thought, and meanwhile I will keep looking.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Morigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    328
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
    dunno, that's a tough one, because i don't think any person(serious musicians) who has even the slightest respect for Beethoven would do something so horrible as to "rewrite" or "rearrange" Beethoven's music.
    I don't know, Liszt?

  5. #5
    Senior Member opus67's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Madras/Chennai, India
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Beethoven himself rearranged his second symphony for a piano trio.

    JChang, I'm sorry that I can't offer an answer to your question, but I'd be interested in listening to the version you mentioned.
    Regards,
    Navneeth

    Want a piece of classical music identified? Post a link or upload a clip here. Someone might have an answer.


    A quick and gentle introduction to audio formats and compression

    2009: It's the International Year of Astronomy
    http://www.astronomy2009.org/

  6. #6
    Senior Member David C Coleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    263
    Post Thanks / Like

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
    dunno, that's a tough one, because i don't think any person(serious musicians) who has even the slightest respect for Beethoven would do something so horrible as to "rewrite" or "rearrange" Beethoven's music.

    I agree with you Gustav. I heard a performance of Beethoven's 9th conducted by Kurt Masur at the London Proms concerts about 3 years sgo. And he augmented the choir parts with a boys choir !! arghhhh..It sounded terrible!!! I hate so called "serious" musicians who mess about with near perection!!!...

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    215
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JChang View Post
    I don't necessarily agree with you on this, Gustav. For example, Dmitri Mitropoulos and Leonard Bernstein, definitely serious musicians, were in favor of "rearranging" Beethoven's C# minor string quartet but I don't think they were disrespectful to Beethoven.
    If they did that, maybe they had some reasoning as to why they did it. Maybe they wanted to fit it in a performance, or just curious at what it would sound like with a full orchestra. Nevertheless, it's a travesty that they did that, since Beethoven knew what he was doing, and if he wrote for "a string quartet", then it's nobody's business to change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JChang View Post
    Schubert's "Death and Maiden" rearranged by Mahler (your hero yes?) also comes to mind.
    he is not my "hero", whatever you meant by that. I am not some teenager who goes about worshiping the great composers, i merely listen to their music and draw pleasure from it. In fact, i don't even have a "favorite" composer, all i might have an urge for Beethoven this week, or Mozart the next, but never am i fixed on one composer, and actually "worship" him/her. Mahler did alot of "crazy" things, he re-orchestrated Beethoven's 9th, and Schumann's symphonies too, but that was because he was a composer and conductor He sometimes knew musical insights better than the composer did. Mind you, even the great composers make mistakes, in Beethoven's case, he is imagining the music in his head (he was deaf!), and subsequently he might've made some mistakes here and there. But, a good conductor can see it and correct it, and bring about a nice performance without any problem. In Schumann's case, his orchestration has always been criticized as being "too heavy" "clumsy", Mahler basically went back and changed A LOT of the orchestration of his symphonies, but it also changed the character of the works somewhat, so i am not so sure about Mahler on that one. A better example, would be Szell, he "Changed" stuff when he recorded Schumann's 4 symphonies (one of my all time fav recordings btw, if you don't have it, get it), but he was trying to make Schumann sound as smooth as it can be, so it was all well intended, and moreover, he preserved the original character of the works well, unlike the Mahler re-orchestrations.

    Quote Originally Posted by JChang View Post
    But I can understand the purist sentiment. In fact, the Vienna Phil members were against the idea of playing the C# minor quartet when Bernstein initially proposed it (they eventually liked it, hence that awesome recording).
    Well, good music sound good no matter how you play it But, there is more going on in a piece of music than just playing the notes. htere is also this thing called "tradition". The Wiener Philharmoniker is all about "tradition", and me too. So, in my opinion, no one should or have the authority to change anything the master wrote.
    Last edited by Gustav; Feb-23-2008 at 18:50.

  8. #8
    Newbies
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    This discussion about music arrangements aside, the search for this mysterious recording has become an interesting little project of mine. I mean, isn't it curious? Beethoven obviously didn't write any lyrics to the Sixth Symphony. What words was she singing then? Presumably someone went to the trouble of writing matching lyrics to the symphony and a singer and an entire orchestra were recruited to record the song. That's quite an investment and it can't be some half-baked effort.
    The closest thing I 've found so far is this webpage that claims that Jessye Norman (famous soprano singer) recorded the Pastroal symphony with Deutsche Grammophone in 1981. (http://www.answers.com/topic/jessye-...=entertainment ; See 'Selective discography' section) I was initially excited about this finding but have come to the conclusion that this must be a mistake of this webpage. She was actually a soloist in the Ninth Symphony conducted by Karl Bohm, and I think the Sixth Symphony was just the coupling in that record. The search continues...

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    760
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by opus67 View Post
    Beethoven himself rearranged his second symphony for a piano trio.

    JChang, I'm sorry that I can't offer an answer to your question, but I'd be interested in listening to the version you mentioned.
    I also seem to recall that he recycled a theme used in his Third symphony for a piano quintet in E flat (opus--), as well as Creatures of Prometheus...?? Im not sure which came first, though.

  10. #10
    Senior Member opus67's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Madras/Chennai, India
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rondo View Post
    I also seem to recall that he recycled a theme used in his Third symphony for a piano quintet in E flat (opus--), as well as Creatures of Prometheus...?? Im not sure which came first, though.
    I'm not sure about the quintet, but he did use the theme from the last movement in the 'Creatures...', one of his contradances, and of course the Eroica Variations (duh!).
    In fact, the first two of these preceded the symphony. So, to be accurate, he used the themes from these works in the Eroica.
    Regards,
    Navneeth

    Want a piece of classical music identified? Post a link or upload a clip here. Someone might have an answer.


    A quick and gentle introduction to audio formats and compression

    2009: It's the International Year of Astronomy
    http://www.astronomy2009.org/

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    215
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by opus67 View Post
    I'm not sure about the quintet, but he did use the theme from the last movement in the 'Creatures...', one of his contradances, and of course the Eroica Variations (duh!).
    In fact, the first two of these preceded the symphony. So, to be accurate, he used the themes from these works in the Eroica.
    So? Beethoven and a lot of other great composers did that, but that's irrelevant of what i am talking about here. When Beethoven does it, it's okay, because it's HIS work. But, when somone else does it (without the permission of the composer), then it is NOT Okay. No matter what context it is in.

  12. #12
    Newbies
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
    No matter what context it is in.
    I wouldn't go so far... many great composers (including Beethoven himself, Mozart, Brahms etc.) wrote Variations by borrowing a melody (theme) from others.

    Also, if you are a composition student, sometimes you may be encouraged to arrange great composers' work into another format so you better appreciate their musical languages and techniques. It's a very useful exercise and there is nothing disrespectful about it (quite the contrary). Whether or not you DARE to play that homework of yours in front of public audiences is a different story.

  13. #13
    Senior Member joen_cph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cph, Denmark
    Posts
    5,573
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    This thread keeps coming up in the searches & I remember doing some Googling in order to solve the "mystery" of the recording, not finding anything though. Unless something else is proven, perhaps the music spoken of here was actually the 3rd Symphony by Vaughan-Williams, also called "Pastoral Symphony", which briefly has a soprano singing without words in the finale ...

  14. #14
    Senior Member Art Rock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kampen (NL)
    Posts
    24,423
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Sarah Brightnan did a vocal version of a key melody of Beethoven's 7th, but not the 6th AFAIK.
    I treat my music like I treat my pets. It’s something to own, care about and curate with attention to detail. From a blog by hjr.

Similar Threads

  1. Gould's Beethoven
    By Shane in forum Solo & Chamber Music
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: Dec-23-2019, 21:31
  2. Female and male instruments?
    By Daniel in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: Apr-15-2017, 20:45
  3. Going to pick up some Beethoven...
    By Azathoth in forum Orchestral Music
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: Sep-18-2013, 21:32
  4. Questions (help) and presenting myself
    By jongaleo in forum Voice and Choir
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Oct-22-2010, 06:51
  5. The Controversy over the true musical achievements of Haydn and Mozart
    By robert newman in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 391
    Last Post: Jun-09-2007, 09:20

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •