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Thread: Yet again...

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Default Yet again...

    Down 5 1/2 hours this time...oh dear.


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    Administrator Frederik Magle's Avatar
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    Yes, unfortunately, and I even got up at 2 am to check, at 3am it crashed.... Since it still appears to be hardware related, it seems a real solution cannot be implemented until Monday. In the meantime, I'm going to restart the server regularly during the day and night. the downtime for each restart should be no more than 2-3 minutes at most. Maybe that will help. I'm running out of options, and the hosting company is slow to respond in the weekend...

    Rest assured that a real solution will be found and implemented next week.

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederik Magle View Post
    Rest assured that a real solution will be found and implemented next week.
    May your expectations be met, and easily! And BTW many thanks for providing this service, which everybody here seems to appreciate greatly.


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    I thought that it was only me who was having these problems, I checked this site with a server checker, and it indicated that the site was down, that means down for everyone... Happened twice and for such a long time...pity...hope this can this be resolved...
    Last edited by Musician; Sep-15-2013 at 08:24.

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  7. #5
    Administrator Frederik Magle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    May your expectations be met, and easily! And BTW many thanks for providing this service, which everybody here seems to appreciate greatly.
    Thank you, and you are welcome.

    We may - most likely - within the not too distant future have to move TC to an even bigger dedicated server, and it will also require more intensive monitoring and rapid response to minimize any downtime (5+ hours is not acceptable). As it grows, attacks will become more and more common (we experienced a row of DDOS attacks just one month ago), and even minor technical issues will have bigger impact. Also, there are improvements I'd like to install, such as a mobile platform in addition to the regular web-based.

    However, I'm afraid the time where TC could stay free of ads is running out. It's simply getting too big (which is wonderful!) but also too expensive to run without generating any income at all, so I will probably start testing the waters and implementing some sort of advertising in the near future. TC will remain 100% free to use of course, and I will do the uttermost not to ruin the user experience and aesthetics of the site in any way!

    The good thing about all this, though, is that TC is a huge success!! We are currently on a trajectory to become the biggest classical music forum in the world! Now, I just need to ensure technical issues will not prevent its ascend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederik Magle View Post
    Thank you, and you are welcome.

    We may - most likely - within the not too distant future have to move TC to an even bigger dedicated server, and it will also require more intensive monitoring and rapid response to minimize any downtime (5+ hours is not acceptable). As it grows, attacks will become more and more common (we experienced a row of DDOs attacks just one month ago), and even minor technical issues will have bigger impact. Also, there are improvements I'd like to install, such as a mobile platform in addition to the regular web-based.

    However, I'm afraid the time where TC could stay free of ads is running out. It's simply getting to big (which is wonderful!) but also expensive to run without generating any income at all, so I will probably start testing the waters and implementing some sort of advertising in the near future. TC will remain 100% free to use of course, and I will do the uttermost not to ruin the user experience in any way!
    Sounds like a plan! Make sure only classical music related ads of course.

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    Administrator Frederik Magle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComposerOfAvantGarde View Post
    Sounds like a plan! Make sure only classical music related ads of course.
    Certainly, I will make sure!

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    Senior Member ptr's Avatar
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    What kind of money are we talking about on a yearly basis for You to run TC?

    Personally I have little good to say about fora's that are financed by adds! (Have been a member of a few and over they years the adds tend to get more and more invasive at the expense of the subject of the fora... And I less and less interested to be a member...)

    ..have You (I'm not read up) had any thoughts on turning TC in to a "public" trust (foundation) that could be funded by donations instead of adds?

    /ptr
    Je suis Charlie ~ I am a certified OrgaNut! (F.—I.W.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederik Magle View Post
    Thank you, and you are welcome.

    We may - most likely - within the not too distant future have to move TC to an even bigger dedicated server, and it will also require more intensive monitoring and rapid response to minimize any downtime (5+ hours is not acceptable). As it grows, attacks will become more and more common (we experienced a row of DDOS attacks just one month ago), and even minor technical issues will have bigger impact. Also, there are improvements I'd like to install, such as a mobile platform in addition to the regular web-based.

    However, I'm afraid the time where TC could stay free of ads is running out. It's simply getting too big (which is wonderful!) but also too expensive to run without generating any income at all, so I will probably start testing the waters and implementing some sort of advertising in the near future. TC will remain 100% free to use of course, and I will do the uttermost not to ruin the user experience and aesthetics of the site in any way!

    The good thing about all this, though, is that TC is a huge success!! We are currently on a trajectory to become the biggest classical music forum in the world! Now, I just need to ensure technical issues will not prevent its ascend.
    Thank you for the service you provide and our thanks go out to all the mods who help to make TC such a pleasant site and to all the posters who give us so much food for thought!
    Music begins where words leave off. Music expresses the inexpressible.

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    Senior Member JCarmel's Avatar
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    I enjoy TC because it's good to share one's love & enthusiasm for music ...& some knowledge gleaned over the years...with others who are similar-minded. I find it rather a distressing thought that all the care, the knowledge & the good humour that is evident on this forum will just be lost if/when the site goes down for good! Hopefully that won't happen...but I'd just like to say that I have really enjoyed reading & contributing to the forum's topics & posts ...both of which evidence cleverness & thoughtfulness on the part of the contributors....a great combination!

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    Administrator Frederik Magle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptr View Post
    What kind of money are we talking about on a yearly basis for You to run TC?

    Personally I have little good to say about fora's that are financed by adds! (Have been a member of a few and over they years the adds tend to get more and more invasive at the expense of the subject of the fora... And I less and less interested to be a member...)

    ..have You (I'm not read up) had any thoughts on turning TC in to a "public" trust (foundation) that could be funded by donations instead of adds?

    /ptr
    O ye, of little faith! Believe me, I do not want to plaster TC with ads. In my opinion it would be extremely short sighted and outright counter productive, precisely because of the objections you voice. However, I would worry about making TC donation based as well. Some (many) people might be put off by calls for donations, feeling that TC might not be truly "free" anymore, feeling a pressure to donate. At least that is a concern.

    TC currently runs on a dedicated server which also hosts MIMF and a few static pages, but TC takes up at least 80% of the server load, so the expense associated with running the server is for all practical purposes due to TC (or at least 80% of it). The server cost is 19500 Dkr per year (3475 US$ with today's exchange rate). On top of that is various software license expenses, and other minor expenses adding up. All in all I would say approx. between 23000 and 25000 Dkr per year in total, currently. But with the need for a bigger server, and better monitoring/more, better and quicker technical response, approaching within the foreseeable future, I could see that go up to maybe 35-40000 Dkr or more per year. If TC continues its current growth, or course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taggart View Post
    Thank you for the service you provide and our thanks go out to all the mods who help to make TC such a pleasant site and to all the posters who give us so much food for thought!
    And thank you, to all members and our great staff for making TC such a great place!

    Quote Originally Posted by JCarmel View Post
    I find it rather a distressing thought that all the care, the knowledge & the good humour that is evident on this forum will just be lost if/when the site goes down for good!
    You don't have to worry about that. TC will not go down for good. It's too good to fail and we have all invested too much time and other resources, and I personally care way too much about this site, to let it go away. Don't worry. TC will remain!

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    While you were down, I let Google direct me to a number of other classical fora. I noticed sex/dating ads, a decided dearth of activity and an awkward thread navigation interface.

    This established community is head and shoulders above the competition. I can live with adds (preferably, they be on topic).

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    Senior Member Ukko's Avatar
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    I look at one of the other CM forums daily; the ads it runs are circumspect enough. Unfortunately, nothing much happens there - I think because of a dearth of whippersnappers to stir the stew. My own stirring just seems to annoy the other geezers (some of them probably prematurely geezerish). Hmm... maybe that's a clue?
    I spent a fortune on deodorant before I realized that people don't like me anyway.

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  21. #14
    Senior Member Pyotr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederik Magle View Post
    However, I would worry about making TC donation based as well. Some (many) people might be put off by calls for donations, feeling that TC might not be truly "free" anymore, feeling a pressure to donate. At least that is a concern.
    I don't agree with that. I don't think it would make anyone uncomfortable at all, if they opt not to donate. I would not be bothered if you did both: ads and a donation request area. For example, on the PA Ballet website they have a "Support The Ballet" menu.
    Last edited by Krummhorn; Jun-13-2017 at 06:29. Reason: fixed quote tag

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederik Magle View Post
    The server cost is 19500 Dkr per year (3475 US$ with today's exchange rate). On top of that is various software license expenses, and other minor expenses adding up. All in all I would say approx. between 23000 and 25000 Dkr per year in total, currently.
    Sorry to bring up a dead topic but not a dead server topic...

    But, that's $3700 USD? I run a website that is on the same Alexa rank as TC (who is at #121,000ish) where as mine is around (#150,000) ... so I know a bit about scaling.

    What licenses are you using?

    How is this so costly? I ask because I'm a software engineer at a US bank and I know what it takes to scale and scale _well_ so by knowing these figures... I want to see TC run smoothly but at what cost.

    I'd like to help on the website side of things... so I ask these kind of questions.
    Last edited by danj; Jun-13-2017 at 04:43.

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