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Religion, politics, and musical taste

40K views 191 replies 56 participants last post by  Johnnie Burgess 
#1 ·
Is there any relation between the political/religious ideas/beliefs of a person and his/er musical taste?.
 
#184 ·
Oh, years ago we really got carried away with this stuff and the staff here had to amputate the wound. I'm surprised how well they have been handling the new sub-forum.

I know of them - :eek: I am not a scholar when it comes to mysticism: it's more a feeling about the world that I like to experience, and have experienced, though only in fleeting glimpses, since I was a child. I have also looked at mystical excerpts from the Hindu sacred writings when I studied Indian Civilisation at university.

Maybe the only mystical treatise that I've actually read is The Cloud of Unknowing - and even that I can't remember! :rolleyes:

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PS This thread is actually about taste in music, rather than personal religious belief, so I will add that in keeping with my interest in Eastern mysticism, I listen to oriental music for its ambience; & in keeping with my interest in the details of history & the experiences of individuals, I listen to western music for its melody & rhythm - its 'story', if you like. I should say that in music, unlike in literature, I prefer the short story to the long novel! :)
Great post, Ingelou. I hadn't known that you had such an affinity for Indian thought until now! Personally, I love Indian literature, and especially their philosophy (philosophy and religion are hardly distinguishable in India), and it has colored my experience of Dhrupad quite nicely.

My own thoughts on religion, politics, and music? So many here seem to shy away from music that is imbedded with this stuff, but I have always enjoyed music that is more programmatic. People are often anything but agreeable when it comes to these issues, and more intuitive than critical in their thinking in the first place. Well pardon me for saying that I'm bored to tears by most any approach that isn't academic.
 
#143 ·
I've always liked religious music best, and like Ingelou have always been drawn to mysticism, even as a teenager when I was a staunch atheist. I think this colors my musical taste beyond just liking religious music, in that I tend not to like music that's overtly subjective or humanistic as much. It's not that I don't like such music at all, but, for example, I like late Beethoven more than middle Beethoven, and Mozart more than Beethoven.
 
#145 ·
These discussions of atheism v. agnosticism v. belief, faith, etc. can best be set within the context of probabilities. Very strictly speaking, we cannot say as absolute fact that tomorrow the sun will not suddenly become a giant banana, but the probability of this happening is quite low. It could happen--quantum theory tells us that probability is the only certainty outside of the intrinsic certainties of, say, mathematics (the proof that there is no largest prime, for example). So it becomes a matter of personal taste, if you like, whether or when to call something of vanishingly small probability as being non-existent. The question of the existence of gods, devils, other phenomena that are alleged to transcend space and time then becomes where along the probability spectrum one chooses to plant the flag of belief. I am persuaded by arguments such as Richard Feynman's that the universe, known and suspected, is a theater that is far too immense, complex, and detailed for the drama set forward by most religions as being performed within.
 
#146 ·
I think the term "agnostic" should be applied to true fence-sitters, not to simply anyone who admits to any kind of uncertainty. I mean probably a lot of theists admit that they don't know with 100% certainty that theism is true, does it make any sense to call both them and somebody who believes theism is on the level of toothfairyism (technically not disprovable, but not to be taken in serious consideration) "agnostic"?
 
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#148 ·
I think the term "agnostic" should be applied to true fence-sitters
Simon Moon's post (125) clarified that agnosticm is not about fence-sitting. It is a definite thought-out position: "Agnosticism does not concern belief. Agnosticism concerns knowledge, or more specifically, what can be known."

Huxley:
Agnosticism is of the essence of science, whether ancient or modern. It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe.
 
#149 ·
@dogen: The banana just suddenly popped into my head. I'll look into your Adams reference.....

@Dim7: I agree--the term agnostic needs to be more tightly defined. I sometimes chafe at protestations of agnosticism that smack too much of hedging one's bets, and of thus short-circuiting serious discussion inside one's own head (or with genuinely involved companions). I regard Feynman as great company--unlike Dawkins who has embarked on a quest that rivals that of the Man from La Mancha, Feynman only answered such questions when asked. I will credit Dawkins, though, for battling courageously against "Creation Science" and "Intelligent Design", but perhaps his zeal has gotten the better of him.
 
#150 ·
@dogen and Dim7: Put me down as a big fan of agnosticism, however defined, if it indicates a loosening of adherence to some organized religion. The fruits of the Enlightenment, so seriously under threat today, came about at least partly as a result of the erosion of religious certainty in Western Europe: both cause and effect. Were I put in charge of the education of the young throughout the world, one of the prime texts they would be required to read and understand would be Eric Hoffer's classic work on fanaticism,The True Believer. That book has remained a beacon of sanity since its initial publication.
 
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#161 ·
Up at the top, you will notice a pull-down menu called "Community." If you click on that, there will be a ling for "groups." Go in there, and there are a variety of groups that you can join to discuss specialty topics, from politics, to religion, to communism, to nothing at all.
 
#164 ·
That's very interesting. Can you tell me what some of them are? Is it because of texts or musical style?
For example, I strongly dislike heavy metal because I find it very aggressive and the words often demeaning, but I am prepared to admit I have only a small sample - from my children when they were teenagers - and not much interest in expanding it. But I take it you are referring (however loosely) to "classical".
 
#182 ·
I've heard some Christian pop/rock and it was pretty vile :( If I were into metal, I'd want the real thing, but each to his own :tiphat: Me, I absolutely love the world and am excited every day to be alive in this time. How repressive life in the past was, how limited without knowledge and technology and (political) freedom. When I was into metal (approx. ages 12-18), it wasn't even called metal yet; it was known as hard rock. Luckily, the lyrics were mostly unintelligible :lol:
 
#185 ·
Lukecash 12: "Well pardon me for saying that I'm bored to tears by most any approach that isn't academic."

For absolutely no good reason, I am compelled to take that statement completely out of context.

An academic approach to the sensations accessible while still hunting - is doomed to failure.

Hmm. I wonder how much warping of context gets into discussions of music-in-religion-and politics?
 
#187 ·
A perceptive question and entertaining post, my friend. Still trying to figure out what you mean when you say "sensations accessible while still hunting", and I'm afraid my guess may be way off. All I can say is that for me the academic parts of music not only compliment but drive much of my emotional responses, as opposed to sterilizing the whole endeavor.

Thinking about the music theory, how the composer made the piece, and what kind of world the composer lived in, is something I find stirring. Religious music, as it affords greater thematic context and speaks to my own religious sentiments, naturally stirs the pot up pretty good.
 
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