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Thread: Modulations in Haydn Trio

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    Default Modulations in Haydn Trio

    hi all. i am looking at Haydn's trio in d-flat major HOBIII:73, and it seems that it modulates to A-flat major at the double bar / repeat signs then ends in C major. could anyone help me identify where this modulation to c major occurs? it starts on page 20 here http://javanese.imslp.info/files/img...Op.74_No.2.pdf
    seems to be a bit atypical with so many key changes
    thank all very much
    Last edited by musiclov; Dec-15-2013 at 01:44.

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    Senior Member hreichgott's Avatar
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    Have a look at the bass line and chords created by 2nd violin, viola and cello in the first system on p21.

    Also, the trio isn't the whole movement. It's a minuet with trio which is usually played minuet, trio, minuet. So it would be helpful to know the overall key of the movement -- might show you the reason for ending the trio section in C major.
    Last edited by hreichgott; Dec-15-2013 at 06:58.
    Heather W. Reichgott, piano
    http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com

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    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
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    the modulation is a chromatic one from ms. 69-73. The bass "A-flat" moves to "A natural" (which is part of a leading tone diminished chord) which then resolves to a B-flat minor chord (mss 70-71). It then chromatically moves to the "B natural" (which is part of a leading tone diminished chord) to C (ms. 72-73).
    "Music in any generation is not what the public thinks of it but what the musicians make of it"....Virgil Thomson

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    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Wouldn't call that a modulation to C at all. What it is is motion to the dominant of F major, the key of the Minuet. The dominant chord, C major, is tonicized by its own leading tone triad (B, D, F).

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    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
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    Edward, since there are "B naturals" & only "B naturals" used from ms. 72 to the double bar, I think it's OK to say that those measures with its imperfect authentic cadence at the double bar are in C major. In fact until one takes the DC one would never know that the tonic key of F major is coming back.
    "Music in any generation is not what the public thinks of it but what the musicians make of it"....Virgil Thomson

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    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasks View Post
    Edward, since there are "B naturals" & only "B naturals" used from ms. 72 to the double bar, I think it's OK to say that those measures with its imperfect authentic cadence at the double bar are in C major. In fact until one takes the DC one would never know that the tonic key of F major is coming back.
    Ah, but note the harmonies leading up to the C major chord. The D-flat and B-flat minor harmonies have nothing to do with C major. They come from the key of F minor. Thus at the end of the trio we have the VI, iv and V chords from F minor, the latter two supported by diminished configurations with their respective leading tones. So the C major chord before the da capo is the dominant of F. Haydn is using the parallel minor key (F minor) to mediate between the keys of D-flat (where F minor is the iii chord) and F major, the overall key of the movement.

    The analysis for the passage on page 21 would look like this:

    Key of D-flat: V7 - I6/4 - vii/vi . . . . .
    Key of F minor: V7/VI - VI - vii/iv - iv - vii/V - Key of F: V - (vii6/V) - V etc.

    Bottom line for the OP: There is no modulation to C major, it is a modulation back to F landing on the dominant.
    Last edited by EdwardBast; Dec-18-2013 at 01:35.

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    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
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    Your chordal analysis is fine, Eduard. And on a macro level I agree that mss 73 to the double bar is dominant prolongation of F major. But on the micro level, if the quartet stopped playing at the double bar and walked away I'd have to say it cadenced in C major.
    "Music in any generation is not what the public thinks of it but what the musicians make of it"....Virgil Thomson

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    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasks View Post
    Your chordal analysis is fine, Eduard. And on a macro level I agree that mss 73 to the double bar is dominant prolongation of F major. But on the micro level, if the quartet stopped playing at the double bar and walked away I'd have to say it cadenced in C major.
    True, but it would be an atypical and unsatisfying cadence. That chromatic crawl up to C just sounds more like an approach to a dominant rather than to a tonic.

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    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
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    Well, I enjoyed sharing our views, Edward. I hope we can do it again on some future post here, but as for page 21 of the Haydn score I think that "horse" is dead and I really don't want to beat it any more. Take care.
    "Music in any generation is not what the public thinks of it but what the musicians make of it"....Virgil Thomson

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