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Thread: Talent.........God given or the luck of the draw?

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    Senior Member Itullian's Avatar
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    Question Talent.........God given or the luck of the draw?

    Just the arbitrary arrangement of genes?
    Or Divine gift?
    When all else fails, listen to Thick as a Brick.

    "Life's a long song, but the tune ends too soon for us all." Ian Anderson lyric

    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

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    Senior Member science's Avatar
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    That is a false dichotomy (there are many more options and then combinations of those options) and this is not a thread about music!
    Liberty for wolves is death to the lambs.

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    Sr. Moderator Taggart's Avatar
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    Quite agree. One thinks of Grey's Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard:

    Perhaps in this neglected spot is laid
    Some heart once pregnant with celestial fire;
    Hands that the rod of empire might have swayed,
    Or waked to ecstasy the living lyre.

    But Knowledge to their eyes her ample page
    Rich with the spoils of time did ne'er unroll;
    Chill Penury repressed their noble rage,
    And froze the genial current of the soul.

    Full many a gem of purest ray serene,
    The dark unfathomed caves of ocean bear:
    Full many a flower is born to blush unseen,
    And waste its sweetness on the desert air.

    Some village-Hampden, that with dauntless breast
    The little tyrant of his fields withstood;
    Some mute inglorious Milton here may rest,
    Some Cromwell guiltless of his country's blood.

    The applause of listening senates to command,
    The threats of pain and ruin to despise,
    To scatter plenty o'er a smiling land,
    And read their history in a nation's eyes,

    Their lot forbade: nor circumscribed alone
    Their growing virtues, but their crimes confined;
    Forbade to wade through slaughter to a throne,
    And shut the gates of mercy on mankind,


    So it is both a divine gift and the luck of the draw.
    Last edited by Taggart; Jun-06-2014 at 09:10.
    Music begins where words leave off. Music expresses the inexpressible.

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    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    I think it is a God-given arrangement of genes. Just a personal view.
    My fiddle my joy.

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    Senior Member science's Avatar
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    It could also be a God-given arrangement of genes and various environmental factors.
    Liberty for wolves is death to the lambs.

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    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Yes, you're right - environment plays a large part in developing talent. But I think the talent is there to start off with.
    My fiddle my joy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    Yes, you're right - environment plays a large part in developing talent. But I think the talent is there to start off with.
    Totally agree. Wouldn't it have been a tragedy if Beethoven's father was a bank teller and that's what Beethoven aspired to, not even knowing he had God-given musical talent in the extreme.

    Well it wouldn't have been a total loss I guess; he may have invented the "Passionata Passbook".
    Facts don't care about your feelings.

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    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    I can't believe Beethoven wouldn't have found that he loved music. He might have ended up a gifted folk musician, I suppose, without the environmental nurturing.
    My fiddle my joy.

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    Senior Member science's Avatar
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    I think you're right.

    It's funny to think how unique each of us are - not just a combination of genes that could only have come together after a huge series of wildly improbable events (our parents meeting and falling in love [or whatever but let's settle for euphemism for now] with each other rather than with anyone else, and our grandparent, and so on all the way back - and even after they'd met and fallen in love, in every generation there were a lot of sperm that just missed contributing their own assortment of genes)...

    ... but then all those environmental cues that led to us developing in some ways and less in other ways. This is really obvious to me as an adopted kid - I got really lucky, but if a different family had adopted me... who knows?
    Liberty for wolves is death to the lambs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    I can't believe Beethoven wouldn't have found that he loved music. He might have ended up a gifted folk musician, I suppose, without the environmental nurturing.
    He may have even tried tuning in Vienna's Classical Music station....except there was no radio...yet.
    Facts don't care about your feelings.

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    Definitely agree. The musical talent has to first be there, but just as important, it has to be recognized and then cultivated.
    Last edited by hpowders; Jun-08-2014 at 18:06.
    Facts don't care about your feelings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    I can't believe Beethoven wouldn't have found that he loved music. He might have ended up a gifted folk musician, I suppose, without the environmental nurturing.
    Yes. Peter, Paul, Mary and Ludwig (on keyboards).
    Last edited by hpowders; Jun-08-2014 at 23:18.
    Facts don't care about your feelings.

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