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Thread: Bruckner Symphony Cycles

  1. #151
    Senior Member NLAdriaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    I didn't say that. I said that talent is only fully realised with hard work. You take someone like Solti who probably (by his own admission) had a fraction of the talent of people like Karajan or Kleiber, but made up for it somewhat with tremendous hard work. Kleiber actually sometimes appears more critical of others than he was of himself! Like when storming out when a orchestral player questioned one of his decisions.
    Comparing Kleiber with dictator HvK or with screaming skull Solti, is a laugh, when it comes to personality. And what this has to do with comparing talents, is beyond me

  2. #152
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLAdriaan View Post
    Comparing Kleiber with dictator HvK or with screaming skull Solti, is a laugh, when it comes to personality. And what this has to do with comparing talents, is beyond me
    What your posts are saying is beyond me. You're the one who seems to be insisting on making comparisons not me. What are you trying to prove? This thread is about Bruckner. Did Kleiber record any?

    I don't usually agree with Lebrecht but take a look at this:
    http://www.scena.org/columns/lebrech...L-kleiber.html
    Last edited by DavidA; Jul-22-2019 at 12:40.

  3. #153
    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    Internet forums attract people who have trouble modulating their dialogue like moths to a porch light.
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  5. #154
    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    Pulled the trigger on Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic. I appreciate everyone's perspective in this thread. I hadn't even considered this one as a choice until a few here wrote of their appreciation for his cycle. Everything I heard sounded great (5th, 9th, 8th). I'll write back with my thoughts whenever I get it (shipping from UK, it'll be a few weeks... meanwhile I have individual recordings by Karajan, Böhm, Tintner, and now Celibidache to explore).

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  7. #155
    Senior Member Baron Scarpia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamencosketches View Post
    Pulled the trigger on Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic. I appreciate everyone's perspective in this thread. I hadn't even considered this one as a choice until a few here wrote of their appreciation for his cycle. Everything I heard sounded great (5th, 9th, 8th). I'll write back with my thoughts whenever I get it (shipping from UK, it'll be a few weeks... meanwhile I have individual recordings by Karajan, Böhm, Tintner, and now Celibidache to explore).
    Shows how everyone's experience is different. I have that set but never could warm up to it.

    On another note, I noticed you don't have to buy that silly BluRay release to get Karajan's Bruckner in High Def. Prestoclassical is selling it as a high-res lossles download. Depends on whether you have equipment to stream FLAC at high resolution.

    https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...honies-nos-4-9

    I've purchased and downloaded one track (Symphonie 8, first movement) in the highest resolution just to see if I notice any improvement from my CD copy.
    Last edited by Baron Scarpia; Jul-22-2019 at 23:23.

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  9. #156
    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    ^Can't please everyone!

    Karajan's Vienna PO Bruckner recordings are really good, but I can't seem to get into his Berlin recordings for some reason.

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  11. #157
    Senior Member Baron Scarpia's Avatar
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    The best of Karajan's Bruckner, IMO, are those late WPO recordings and the EMI/Berlin recordings, along with the Berlin 5th and 6th (great slow movement, in particular). Audio quality is part of it. I'm curious if the latest high-resolution mastering will change that. There are claims of "original session tapes." Maybe that will make a difference. I think there is a small chance the answer is yes, particularly for the 8th, which is the weakest Berlin recording from the point of view of audio quality.

  12. #158
    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamencosketches View Post
    Karajan's Vienna PO Bruckner recordings are really good, but I can't seem to get into his Berlin recordings for some reason.
    There is a marked difference between Vienna and Berlin. Vienna tends to have more of a lilt and sweetness. Berlin tends to be more strict and austere. Of course those are generalizations, but I prefer Austrian and Eastern European orchestras to heavy Germanic ones myself.

    Barenboim wouldn't be my first pick, but I'm sure it's a good basic cycle to learn the music with.
    Last edited by bigshot; Jul-23-2019 at 07:28.
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  13. #159
    Senior Member NLAdriaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamencosketches View Post
    Karajan's Vienna PO Bruckner recordings are really good, but I can't seem to get into his Berlin recordings for some reason.
    This might have to do something with the chemistry between conductor and orchestra. The marriage between HvK and BPO was not always a happy one, also because it lasted too long. It is interesting to compare (sorry, here I go again) HvK and Wand in Bruckner with the BPO, even if there was quite some time between the two recordings. Under Wand the BPO's Bruckner sounds fresh, flexible and transparant, when compared to HvK. The same comparison is interesting for Karajan, Haitink and Giulini in Bruckner with the VPO. There is more consistency in orchestral sound between these conductors. Maybe also because the VPO don't have a chief conductor who can shape the orchestra into a straitjacket?

    In general, the BPO overall is the better orchestra compared to the VPO. The VPO has wonderful strings, but the wood and brass stay behind. The BPO is more balanced. In Bruckner however, the VPO seems to rise up, maybe it is the nationalism? And the BPO, like all great orchestras, require a respected conductor, to which they are listening, otherwise they will play on autopilot.

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    Senior Member CnC Bartok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamencosketches View Post
    Pulled the trigger on Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic. I appreciate everyone's perspective in this thread. I hadn't even considered this one as a choice until a few here wrote of their appreciation for his cycle. Everything I heard sounded great (5th, 9th, 8th). I'll write back with my thoughts whenever I get it (shipping from UK, it'll be a few weeks... meanwhile I have individual recordings by Karajan, Böhm, Tintner, and now Celibidache to explore).
    Well, at least you'll have a copy of Bruckner's last completed work, the somewhat empty little cantata Helgoland. Not that many recordings of that, and two of them are Barenboim's! I don't think you have made a poor choice in any way. Barenboim is very solid in Bruckner, I very much like the pacing he manages, rubato in no way intrusive, clearly he's a composer very close to his heart, and my feeling with that set is it gets better the later the symphony. Not far off Bruckner himself!

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    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CnC Bartok View Post
    Well, at least you'll have a copy of Bruckner's last completed work, the somewhat empty little cantata Helgoland. Not that many recordings of that, and two of them are Barenboim's! I don't think you have made a poor choice in any way. Barenboim is very solid in Bruckner, I very much like the pacing he manages, rubato in no way intrusive, clearly he's a composer very close to his heart, and my feeling with that set is it gets better the later the symphony. Not far off Bruckner himself!
    Its a good cycle. What I'd term a good library set. Weirdly, I like the Chicago cycle better. Some great brass playing.

    81iwlnYZCLL._SL1400_.jpg

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  18. #162
    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    ^Honestly, that looks great too. Barenboim was pretty young when he recorded it, no? I'm going to check out a few of the recordings.

  19. #163
    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    ^^

    Only on CD I've been able to experience the wonders of this cycle.

    String playing is gorgeous and Brass is spectacular, but in comparison to German orchestras the result can look really bland even by Münchner Philharmoniker standards (I can think of No.7). It's my go-to stereo cycle and has ditched Jochum DG. If you really get into Bruckner, you should get it one day, because I got it in a sale for 27€ from Germany, and it's been one of my best purchases ever. Compare with Solti Chicago too. Very pedestrian conducting but Decca engineers and orchestra do wonders.




    B005C8VQTO

    IMO, the Berlin Cycle only gets better and particularly referential in the two symphonies that I didn't like much in this DG set: No.5 and No.9.
    Last edited by Granate; Jul-23-2019 at 22:54.

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  21. #164
    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
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    I really don't like Solti for stuff like this. Too strident. Bruckner has a tendency to be LOUDsoftLOUDsoftLOUDsoft... It can get monotonous. Vienese conductors and orchestras tend to put a little bit of spring and life into it that makes it easier to listen to. I feel the same with Mahler too, but Bruckner is the worst for that.
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  23. #165
    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    I really don't like Solti for stuff like this. Too strident. Bruckner has a tendency to be LOUDsoftLOUDsoftLOUDsoft... It can get monotonous. Vienese conductors and orchestras tend to put a little bit of spring and life into it that makes it easier to listen to. I feel the same with Mahler too, but Bruckner is the worst for that.
    Ive never liked Solti's Bruckner either (but love his Brahms and Schumann).

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