Page 20 of 21 FirstFirst ... 10161718192021 LastLast
Results 286 to 300 of 307

Thread: Richard Strauss - Four Last Songs - Who's the mummy?

  1. #286
    Senior Member Pugg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    39,999
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by philoctetes View Post
    Does anybody else think that Daphne's final scene is in the same league as 4LS musically? No Hesse for poetry, but otherwise the rapture is quite intense.

    I'm just breaking into Lott's recordings recently. Guess I need to hear her 4LS as well.
    You should try the Popp and Fleming recoding from Daphe first.
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    "Mahatma Gandhi"

  2. #287
    Senior Member philoctetes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    169
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Already have complete Daphnes with Popp and Gueden. Popp is the winner again. Fleming is a red flag for me, ever since her first 4LS, have not heard the second. But I like her career repertory such as Rusalka.

  3. #288
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    2,877
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Josquin13 View Post
    I'm a big fan of Gundula Janowitz, but not of Karajan. Besides, I think the younger Karajan did this music better with Schwarzkopf (albeit in lesser mono sound). I wish Janowitz had recorded these works with Rudolf Kempe and the Staatskapelle Dresden instead. Haitink is another excellent Strauss conductor, but why did they take Im Abendrot so fast? It doesn't work for me (I agree with Bill).

    The same is true for Lisa Della Casa's wonderfully sung Four Last Songs--another great singer working with an arguably second rate conductor, Karl Böhm, who rushes her in the final song (& elsewhere), bringing it in at a speedy 6:00 minutes. Sorry, that's just bad conducting. At least, to my ears, they're not on the same page, as apparently Della Casa's instincts were to slow down and Böhm didn't want to.

    In contrast, a live recording with Elly Ameling from the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam pairs a great singer with a 1st class, seasoned Strauss conductor, Wolfgang Sawallisch. (Sawallisch performed every note that Strauss ever composed over the course of his long career, or at least set out to do so & got very close...). However, unfortunately, the concert was late in Ameling's career, and her voice isn't quite as fresh and youthful sounding as it was in her prime. Nevertheless, the artistry is still there, and I find the subtlety of her interpretation fascinating.

    I also like Elisabeth Söderström's two recordings (with Dorati & Armstrong--especially in the 3rd song), Arleen Auger and the Vienna Philharmonic (Previn's timings are near ideal, especially in the 4th song--best ever), Elisabeth Schwarzkopf in the 3rd song (with Ackermann and Szell), and for sheer opulence, Jessye Norman and the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra, conducted by Kurt Masur, who brilliantly take the final song more slowly than anyone else I've heard.
    I added the Auger/Previn to my collection of VLL today. I'm looking forward to hearing it, there have been many good reports.
    No sound ever comes from the Gates of Eden.

  4. Likes Josquin13 liked this post
  5. #289
    Senior Member Pugg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    39,999
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by philoctetes View Post
    Already have complete Daphnes with Popp and Gueden. Popp is the winner again. Fleming is a red flag for me, ever since her first 4LS, have not heard the second. But I like her career repertory such as Rusalka.
    Her second is so much better then the first, try it again you will see/ hear what I mean.
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    "Mahatma Gandhi"

  6. #290
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    2,877
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Am I correct in thinking that Renee Fleming has only two recordings of VLL, one with Eschenbach and one with Thielemann?
    No sound ever comes from the Gates of Eden.

  7. Likes Pugg liked this post
  8. #291
    Senior Member Pugg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    39,999
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    Am I correct in thinking that Renee Fleming has only two recordings of VLL, one with Eschenbach and one with Thielemann?
    Commercial recording, yes, however on You Tube are others one from Lutzern and one from the Proms from the back of my head.
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    "Mahatma Gandhi"

  9. #292
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    2,877
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pugg View Post
    Commercial recording, yes, however on You Tube are others one from Lutzern and one from the Proms from the back of my head.
    Thanks Pugg. I was thinking purely about commercial recordings. Need to add the Eschenbach then.
    No sound ever comes from the Gates of Eden.

  10. #293
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    2,877
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pugg View Post
    Commercial recording, yes, however on You Tube are others one from Lutzern and one from the Proms from the back of my head.
    Pugg, have you heard both commercial Flemings and, if so, what are the differences, if any?
    No sound ever comes from the Gates of Eden.

  11. Likes Pugg liked this post
  12. #294
    Senior Member Pugg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    39,999
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    Pugg, have you heard both commercial Flemings and, if so, what are the differences, if any?
    Is the pope Catholic / Raby Jewish etc...
    For starters more then 20 years in recording date, so the first on dates from 1996, good but she surpasses herself in the later ond with interpretation, as if she understands the text better and I must admit Thieleman's conducting helps without any doubt.
    So for me, I have them both but if you want only one, the 2008 recording is a must have.
    ( on the other hand you can buy the first one in the U.K for a bargain price.

    http://www.bookbutler.com/music/comp...=0828765940825
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    "Mahatma Gandhi"

  13. #295
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    4,566
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    Pugg, have you heard both commercial Flemings and, if so, what are the differences, if any?
    Personally, I prefer Fleming's second take on the songs. Her voice has taken on a new richness in the lower regions, but she hasn't lost the ability to soar and swell the tone at the top. She's also far more inside the songs than she was in the earlier version. I like Thielemann's conducting too.

    I wouldn't prefer it to Schwarzkopf/Szell or Popp/Tennstedt, but it's still among my favourite versions. I just wish she wouldn't occasionally mar the line with jazzy swoops and slides, a mannerism that became more pronounced in her later recordings.
    "It's not enough to have a beautiful voice." Maria Callas

  14. Likes Barbebleu liked this post
  15. #296
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    2,877
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    What I'm basically asking then is this. Am I wasting my money on the Fleming/Eschenbach or is it still worth buying?
    No sound ever comes from the Gates of Eden.

  16. #297
    Senior Member wkasimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Sharon, Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,112
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    What I'm basically asking then is this. Am I wasting my money on the Fleming/Eschenbach or is it still worth buying?
    It depends on how fanatical a VLL collector you are. I agree with Pugg that the later recording is better in every respect, but neither recording would be in my top 5 or so. But if you already have the later one, plus Popp, Jurinac, Della Casa, and Isokoski, and you're a Fleming Flapper, then go for it.

    FWIW, I'm a fairly fanatical VLL collector, and I haven't kept the first Fleming recording.

  17. Likes Barbebleu liked this post
  18. #298
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    2,877
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wkasimer View Post
    It depends on how fanatical a VLL collector you are. I agree with Pugg that the later recording is better in every respect, but neither recording would be in my top 5 or so. But if you already have the later one, plus Popp, Jurinac, Della Casa, and Isokoski, and you're a Fleming Flapper, then go for it.

    FWIW, I'm a fairly fanatical VLL collector, and I haven't kept the first Fleming recording.
    That probably answers my question then.
    No sound ever comes from the Gates of Eden.

  19. #299
    Senior Member Pugg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    39,999
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    What I'm basically asking then is this. Am I wasting my money on the Fleming/Eschenbach or is it still worth buying?
    For only 4.00 UK pounds, just have to hear it yourself.
    Last edited by Pugg; Mar-14-2018 at 05:00.
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
    "Mahatma Gandhi"

  20. Likes Barbebleu liked this post
  21. #300
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    2,877
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wkasimer View Post
    It depends on how fanatical a VLL collector you are. I agree with Pugg that the later recording is better in every respect, but neither recording would be in my top 5 or so. But if you already have the later one, plus Popp, Jurinac, Della Casa, and Isokoski, and you're a Fleming Flapper, then go for it.

    FWIW, I'm a fairly fanatical VLL collector, and I haven't kept the first Fleming recording.
    Thanks for the pointer to the Isokoski. I was not familiar with this wonderful Finnsh soprano. Now I am!
    No sound ever comes from the Gates of Eden.

Similar Threads

  1. Richard Strauss
    By Rondo in forum Composer Guestbooks
    Replies: 116
    Last Post: Apr-29-2018, 08:58
  2. Favourite recordings of Richard Strauss' Four Last Songs (Vier letzte Lieder)?
    By Charon in forum Recorded Music and Publications
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: Sep-25-2014, 15:57
  3. Richard Strauss
    By Sandy in forum Opera
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: Nov-19-2012, 21:36
  4. 2012 BBC Prom 5 disappoitment: Richard Strauss Four Last Songs
    By powerbooks in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Jul-22-2012, 15:04
  5. Richard Strauss
    By Hazel in forum Musicians
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Apr-05-2011, 07:52

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •