Thread: Question about Vivaldi 4 seasons

I don't really get what you meant.

cadenza perhaps??

There's a tradition in baroque music of ornamentation. It's a bit like jazz - you're expected to extemporise. So the new notes you heard are put there by the player, not Vivaldi. Kennedy will have done the same. Vivaldi sounds pretty boring if you don't ornament.

There was a big debate in the 18th century about how to ornament - what's good taste and what isn't. Bach's eldest son -- CPE Bach -- and others wrote books about it. Telemann composed ‘Method Sonatas’ with fully written out ornamentation, so pupils could practice the art.

No one disputes the need for embellishments. This is evident from the great numbers of them everywhere to be found. They are, in fact, indispensable... Without them the best melody is empty and ineffective, the clearest content clouded.

C. P. E. Bach, Essay on the True Art of Playing Keyboard Instruments, p. 79.

purple99 is absolutely right. Ornamentation is essential. Without it a Baroque piece would sound dry. That's why no two versions of Vivaldi's Four Seasons are alike.

Also, aside from the standard score of the Four Season's there are other manuscript versions of it (written in Vivaldi's own hand). The latest recording of the Four Seasons by Amandine Beyer and the Period-Instrument Ensemble ~ Gli Incogniti uses the Manchester Manuscripts Version & the Turin Manuscripts version which is remarkably different in certain passages. More info on their site http://www.zigzag-territoires.com/ar...e=1875&lang=en

Manuscript versions of other pieces by other composers are also available on discs where Ensembles consult for "authenticity" purposes.

One of the continuo players of the DVD La Calisto (directed by René Jacobs) was interviewed in the documentary part. He said that they play differently each time depending on how receptive the audience is... he said this because most of the Basso Continuo part are improvised. :->

Originally Posted by purple99

There's a tradition in baroque music of ornamentation. It's a bit like jazz - you're expected to extemporise. So the new notes you heard are put there by the player, not Vivaldi. Kennedy will have done the same. Vivaldi sounds pretty boring if you don't ornament.

There was a big debate in the 18th century about how to ornament - what's good taste and what isn't. Bach's eldest son -- CPE Bach -- and others wrote books about it. Telemann composed ‘Method Sonatas’ with fully written out ornamentation, so pupils could practice the art.

I did not know this about barouque music. I need to go back and listen to a couple different versions if the seasons as a test... perhaps the players have been taking many more liberties than I was aware of!

Very interesting.

Originally Posted by purple99

There's a tradition in baroque music of ornamentation. It's a bit like jazz - you're expected to extemporise. So the new notes you heard are put there by the player, not Vivaldi. Kennedy will have done the same. Vivaldi sounds pretty boring if you don't ornament.

There are many similarities between baroque music ornamentation and jazz improvisation. Nowhere is this made clearer than in the various jazz versions of Vivaldi's Four Seasons. I have Raymond Fol's 1960s arrangement of the work for jazz band. In it, the saxophone kind of takes the place of the violin. I actually prefer this version to the original. I think Vivaldi would have appreciated it somehow. It's on the Universal label (Gitanes) in the Jazz in Paris series. I don't think many people have heard it.