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Berlioz operas on disc - Les Troyens

21K views 98 replies 24 participants last post by  Tsaraslondon 
#1 ·
Don't judge me for this, but I've never tackled this work. Could someone give me any suggestions for a good recording?
 
#2 ·
See the top recommended cd, dvd thread.

We just did that one.
Either Davis recording will do
 
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#7 ·
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#5 ·




- Best in Show for the Davis/Covent Garden first and foremost for the principals, sound engineering, and performance.

- Honorable Mention for Davis/LSO for the "Royal Hunt and Storm" sequence which has the most powerful and heroic treatment of the horns that I've ever heard in anything by Berlioz aside from some of Davis' scenes from his Benvenutto Cellini.
 
#6 ·
- Honorable Mention for Davis/LSO for the "Royal Hunt and Storm" sequence which has the most powerful and heroic treatment of the horns that I've ever heard in anything by Berlioz aside from some of Davis' scenes from his Benvenutto Cellini.
It is worth noting that Berlioz wanted saxhorns & valved cornets in much of Troyens and it makes all the difference when you hear them in the piece. Certainly a modern horn sounds incredible but it isn't HIP :) When it came to orchestration, Berlioz really knew what he was doing.
 
#11 ·
Second everything Marschallin Blair and Headphone Hermit. Have to say. If I go for the Philips recording over the LSO Live one, it's for the marginally preferable singing, and particularly for Vickers. I also prefer Veasey to De Young, though I like Lang better than Lindholm.

Either way, Davis in Berlioz is unbeatable. Davis spent a lifetime with Berlioz, and it shows. Where other conductors used sometimes to iron out the idiosyncrasies in Berlioz's writing, Davis revels in the music's strangeness, which, paradoxically, reveals both its classical roots and its original modernity.

Davis is your man.
 
#22 ·
I'd rather listen to Guillaume Tell 5 times straight than Troyens once.
:tiphat:
 
#25 ·
The fierce dramatic choral outpourings of the Act I Trojan horse celebration and Act IV's "Royal Hunt and Storm" are quite possibly the most heroic passages (and simultaneously 'beautiful,' incidentally) that I've heard in all of opera- I would rank them higher than anything out of Gotterdammerung- heroic as the scoring can be in that opera.

Hands down.



- for the Act I Trojan horse celebration choruses



- for the Act IV "Royal Hunt and Storm"
 
#48 ·
...And Bryan Hymel is a sexy looking guy if you like them a little on the heavy side (which I do :)) but I've yet to be convinced that he is the saviour of the French heroic tenor repertoire. I have heard his album 'Heroïque', on which the Sigurd aria was quite well sung, but based on that CD I don't find him an exciting singer overall: stiff, unexpressive and sometimes with a bit of a wobble on the loud/high notes. A shame.

Also if it's the production I'm thinking of, it had some strange multicoloured tunics which were possibly on loan from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolour Dream Coat, not much to do with either Virgil's time or Berlioz's. ;)

 
#58 ·
Perhaps it is because of my classical way of listening (no frills, just an Arcam CD player + Arcam amplifier + 2 Von Schweickert speakers), but I hear tremendous differences between the Philips analogue recording of Davis 1, the live LSO digital recording of Davis 2 and the glorious Decca recording of Dutoit. The Philips recording is nice for the voices but lacking in orchestral depth. The LSO recording is live, with understandable balance problems, distracting sounds etc. as it should be, because it is a live recording... But the Decca recording is another class, top of the bill when it comes to spaciousness, balance, atmosphere. There is a soprano miscast in the Dutoit recording, but my attention is elegantly directed towards the orchestral details. There you go with Berlioz from strength to strength.
 
#59 ·
I'm afraid I don't think Dutoit comes within a mile of Davis's understanding of the score, of his affinity with Berlioz. Nor does he thrill the way Davis does in so many important passages. I'll take performance over sound quality any time, and, believe me, anmhe, the sound quality on both Davis sets is more than acceptable.
 
#64 ·
I happen to switch among the two Davis recordings and the Dutoit recording (I own all three) and every time Dutoit is the most satisfying both in performance & recording quality. At gunpoint I will confess: Davis' interpretation & recording verges on dull side & Vive la France, vive Berlioz, vive Dutoit!!!
 
#65 ·
I happen to switch among the two Davis recordings and the Dutoit recording (I own all three) and every time Dutoit is the most satisfying both in performance & recording quality. At gunpoint I will confess: Davis' interpretation & recording verges on dull side & Vive la France, vive Berlioz, vive Dutoit!!!


I have all three as well- and know them like the back of my hand.

So, the absolute opposite analysis and conclusion for me: Davis first, and second, and third.

Dutoit didn't even show up for the race.
 
#68 ·
I have a similar one, also with Crespin and Chauvet, but conducted by Pretre, where she did both Cassandre and Dido excerpts.

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I can only speak about Crespin here, that I am not impressed at all. As a Dido, she is cold and uninspired, just as in her popular DECCA Les nuits d'été (in which Eleanor Steber and Janet Baker are superb- the latter is also a great Dido). For a Cassandre, her singing is too generalized, not to mention that she screams hysterically (!) at the end of the Trojan march.

In general, I like Crespin as a great voice and artist, but only for her Wagner and Strauss , not for Berlioz, Gluck or Massenet (that's strange!)
 
#70 ·
Berlioz Opera Challenge update - Les Troyens

Winner



Berlioz
Les Troyens Live recording
Ben Heppner, Petra Lang, Michele DeYoung, Sara Mingardo, Stephen Milling, Peter Mattei, Orlin Anastassov, Toby Spence, Kenneth Tarver
London Symphony Chorus and Orchestra
Colin Davis
LSO Live (2001)


2nd Place



Berlioz
Les Troyens
Jon Vickers, Berit Lindholm, Josephine Veasey, Heather Begg, Roger Soyer, Peter Glossop, Pierre Thau, Ian Partridge
Wandsworth School Boys' Choir
Chorus and Orchestra of the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden
Colin Davis
Philips (1969/2005 Reissue Edition)


3rd Place



Berlioz
Les Troyens
Michael Spyres, Marie-Nicole Lemieux, Joyce DiDonato, Hanna Hipp, Nicolas Courjal, Stéphane Degout, Jean Teitgen, Cyrille Dubois
Chœurs de l'Opera National du Rhin
Badischer Staatsopernchor
Chœur et Orchestre Philharmonique de Strasbourg
John Nelson
Erato (2017)


4th Place



Berlioz
Les Troyens
Gary Lakes, Deborah Voigt, Françoise Pollet, Hélène Perraguin, Jean-Philippe Courtis, Gino Quilico, Marc Belleau, Jean-Luc Maurette
Chœur et Orchestre Symphonique de Montréal
Charles Dutoit
Decca (1994/2011 Reissue Edition)


[HR][/HR]
I had read this grand French opera as one of the pinnacles of the genre. I had given a go to the Philips Davis recording a long time ago without libretto and ignored it until this month. The opera never interested me but I made an effort to read and understand the plot, and then watch two performances: a dull Pappano DVD from Covent Garden with great staging but dire singing, and a subtitled Gardiner Paris DVD with brighter orchestra and singers and baffling staging (for better or worse). This opera's style was for me mid 19th century with pretty singing, less drama but interesting orchestral parts in the finales, ballets and the Royal Hunt. It never won me enough to consider it a worthy experience over other works, but I had the will to listen to the studio recordings and decide my favourite.

I'd like to point out that while it was hard not to feel bored while watching Act IV. But without images in front of me, it's musically very rewarding: Royal Hunt, Ballet, Iopas' song and Didon & Enée love duet. The two Davis recordings are in terms of Cast quite superior to the others, but the sound and engineering balanced my decision in favour of the LSO recording. They are both superbly played but from the beginning, the Philips recording has that analogue sound issue. Dutoit can be enjoyable in cast and sound without impressing but acts IV and V are growers. The new Nelson Strasbourg is a great try which seems just fine in Act I but grows a lot in Carthage. You should give it a listen too, just for DiDonato (unless you feel she's over-the-top).

4th: Charles Dutoit, Orchestre Symphonique de Montréal 1994

This first digital recording didn't impress me more than the videos, but the Carthage Acts were better sung for me. Pollet's Didon is well performed but she is swallowed by the orchestra in the decisive Scene 2 of Act V. Act IV takes off and entertains better than the other three. Lakes' Enée and Voigt's Cassanndre are not quite nice for my ear.

3rd: John Nelson, Orchestre Philharmonique de Strasbourg 2017

The new Erato recording that finally adds a Troyens to the Warner catalogue is a grower. Don't misjudge too early the performance of Lemieux's Cassandre. I didn't like at all her Act I and didn't have a great partner in Degout (Chorèbe). She was quite improved in Act II. However, the rest of the singers, although they can be a bit pushy for others, do their best and succeed, especially Joyce DiDonato as Didon. She is the star from her first line in Act III and well partnered by Anna and Narbal. She grows from beauty to melodrama and her dramatic performance in Act V is hair-raising. She is the climax of the recording, like, about to burst. Cyrille Dubois is a cool Iopas. Michael Spyres rarely becomes the main character of the recording but his Enée is intense (a bit pushy too), without a dull moment from Act I onwards. My highlight is the complete Act V, where the singers shine. My issue with the recording is a sound quality in the chorus that never expands as much as the LSO Davis one, and a conducting and orchestral playing that is two floors below the winning material. The climaxes, put in comparison with others, often lose grip. Live recording by compilations in the orchestra hall with no audience.

2nd: Colin Davis, Covent Garden 1969

This fan-favourite cannot be ignored in the challenge and delivers a great musical performance, arguably the best vocally. It features the legends of Veasey, Glossop, Lindholm and Vickers. Where I hold my horses is in the analogue recording quality, because I feel it's too restrained or maybe it's not enough to have clear double-basses if the orchestra cannot expand enough in my headphones. Others do better. If I doubt the championship of this recording is because other contenders offer almost equal singing results, if one forgets the nostalgia for the good old days of Vickers and Lindholm, who nail their roles but they are challenged anyway. Vickers is Enée and is certainly heroic. Act V is rock-steady dramatic for the two main singers.

1st: Colin Davis, London Symphony Orchestra 2001

I personally find this Digital and High-Quality recording to be more compelling than the Philips commercial recording. The modern sound the opera deserves: bright and expanded. Orchestrally sublime. I didn't fall in love but the quality is undeniable in the singers. I wasn't expecting a lot for them, but feats like Lang, Mattei and Heppner (Cassandre, Chorèbe & Enée) elevate the performance to the seemingly unreachable heights of the Philips recording. Petra Lang sings a Cassandre I would never imagine, over Lindholm. Heppner can be put on par with Vickers unless you are a fan of the latter, of course. And DeYoung improves as Didon in Act IV and nails the tough Act V. I can't decide between Veasey and her. And some remarks: it's live without audience and at the end of Act IV, the three 'Italie's by Hector's spectre are sung in the foreground.

[HR][/HR]
I don't think I will get a Troyens CD set any soon. I'm sorry. It's on my list of Great operas I don't like together with Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg and Der Rosenkavalier.
 
#71 · (Edited)
I think the first Davis is the preference, though I wish all principals had sounded more French (especially Lindholm).

I recently discovered a personal favorite given to me as a gift, which is the 1969 live performance at Rome with Gedda (Enee), Verrett (Didon), and Horne (Cassandra) conducted by Pretre. This is one of Gedda best nights: he had the stamina (the high C in "Inutiles regrets" was thrilling) and was intelligent as always. In addition, his French was better than of Vickers, for sure. Even though I am not a fan of Horne in Italian bel canto roles which were later associated with her, I often think her "nasal" singing makes her more suitable for French opera, and here she delivered a strong Cassandra. Along with Gedda, Shirley Verrett was the star of the night: she gave and moving and nuanced Dido, which I prefer to both DeYoung and Veasey. Verrett's smoky and warm reading is pretty much the antithesis to Crespin's silvery tone but emotionally detached singing. It is a shame that she didn't record more Berlioz, except for a few arias in her studio recticals. The supporting cast included Massard as Corebus and Luchetti as Iopas.

This Troyens was cut, but the cuts were only for the ballet sequences which I don't care for. The sound quality is quite amazing, no stage noise and coughing.

Now, the only factor that makes this performance a tad lass then ideal is the conducting of Pretre. He was energetic and exciting in faster sections, but I have no ideas why he seemed to race through the more lyrical and slower parts of the score (the love duet in Act 4 was ridiculously rushed).

In any case, as of the second Davis, this Troyens benefits from having the atmosphere of a live performance.

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#73 · (Edited)
I think the first Davis is the preference, though I wish all principals had sounded more French (especially Lindholm).

I recently discovered a personal favorite given to me as a gift, which is the 1969 live performance at Rome with Gedda (Enee), Verrett (Didon), and Horne (Cassandra) conducted by Pretre. This is one of Gedda best nights: he had the stamina (the high C in "Inutiles regrets" was thrilling) and was intelligent as always. In addition, his French was better than of Vickers, for sure. Even though I am not a fan of Horne in Italian bel canto roles which were later associated with her, I often think her "nasal" singing makes her more suitable for French opera, and here she delivered a strong Cassandra. Along with Gedda, Shirley Verrett was the star of the night: she gave and moving and nuanced Dido, which I prefer to both DeYoung and Veasey. Verrett's smoky and warm reading is pretty much the antithesis to Crespin's silvery tone but emotionally detached singing. It is a shame that she didn't record more Berlioz, except for a few arias in her studio recticals. The supporting cast included Massard as Corebus and Luchetti as Iopas.

This Troyens was cut, but the cuts were only for the ballet sequences which I don't care for. The sound quality is quite amazing, no stage noise and coughing.

Now, the only factor that makes this performance a tad lass then ideal is the conducting of Pretre. He was energetic and exciting in faster sections, but I have no ideas why he seemed to race through the more lyrical and slower parts of the score (the love duet in Act 4 was ridiculously rushed).

In any case, as of the second Davis, this Troyens benefits from having the atmosphere of a live performance.

What lets this set down for me, apart from the cuts, is Prêtre's conducting. He has no sense of the structure of the piece, and his pacing is all over the place, alternatively too fast and too slow. I agree about the cast though. Too bad Prêtre ruins it for them.

I also agree about the first Davis still being better than the second. One of my main problems with the second Davis recording is De Young's Didon, as I find her vibrato altogether too intrusive.

As it happens my favourite Didons are both on recordings that are otherwise not really recommendable. Janet Baker only got to record the last scenes, in a superb disc conducted by Sir Alexander Gibson, but she can also be heard in the complete role in a live performance from Covent Garden, in which she was deputising for Josephine Veasey. Unfortunately she is singing in English (she had just been singing the role in English with Scottish Opera, and didn't yet know it in French), whilst everyone else is singing in French. She is nonetheless a great Berlioz singer. Much of the cast is the same as Davis I, a welcome exception being Anja Silja instead of Lindholm as Cassandre.



My other favourite is the late, great Lorraine Hunt Lieberson in an otherwise not particularly recommendable version from the Met.



Levine is another conductor who doesn't really have the measure of the score, and none of the other singers are quite on Hunt Lieberson's level.

I like Verrett very much, but I find her performance a little too outwardly operatic, a little too italianate. Baker and Hunt Lieberson are both more regal and more innig.
 
#75 ·
I don't think Lindholm is as bad as some of the reviews of the first Davis set made her out to be but for years she was the only singer I had heard in the role. I am intrigued by the idea of Anja Silja singing the role; I only heard her live once, towards the end of her career, singing Emilia Marty at Glyndebourne and she was superb.

Anna Caterina Antonacci (Gardiner and Pappano, both on DVD) is my current favourite for the role of Cassandra.

Though I adore Janet Baker I have a mental block regarding the Trojans excerpts with Gibson; so many people love that album; I will probably have to go back to it and try again.

I will have to listen to the Verrett excerpts as soon as I have the chance, not convenient right now.
 
#78 · (Edited)
Rather than start a new thread I've resurrected this one for my review of Troyens on disc. I will go through each recording in turn chronologically and declare my overall winner at the end.

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The first studio recording was recorded by Phillips in 1969 and is considered the classic reference set, no doubt partly because another studio one wasn't released until the Dutoit came out twenty five years later. The sound is wonderful vintage 60s/70s with rich, warm strings and voices nicely placed over the orchestra, nothing to complain about there, even though the more recent recordings are a touch cleaner and clearer.

From the outset it is clear why this is such a popular set. The conducting is wonderful, with Davis revealing that he understands the score and understood Berlioz' idiomatic style. The music by this underrated French composer is very much its own sound world and whilst he harks back to the classical aesthetic of Spontini, he also looks forward. Davis understood this and there is as much Wagner as there is Gluck in his interpretation. He also paces different sections of the work in keeping with the wide variety of moods and speeds Berlioz invokes in his writing.

Unfortunately the singers don't fare as well. There are few francophone singers and that tells when compared with the Dutoit and Nelson sets that have more authentic performers in some of the smaller roles. However, Troyens stands or falls on the three principals. Lindholm doesn't sound at all right for this music to me. Berlioz requires a miraculous mix of heft and lyric grace in these roles and singers such as Baker or Callas who could manage extreme moments of anger as well as they could pathos are what is needed. Lindholm I imagine may have made a good Isolde or Kundry, but she is far too blustery and off pitch for the classical side of Berlioz's nature. As the first two acts progress it gets worse as to my complete surprise Vickers too isn't up to scratch. I am a huge Vickers fan, but he is bawling here. His vulgar oversinging and mangled French almost come close to Corelli's as Don Jose. Therefore despite the superb conducting the first two acts are disastrous IMO.

Things improve greatly as the opera progresses and the other three acts are much better. Veasey seems made for Berlioz and whilst I prefer both Janet Baker (in what was one of her best performances on disc - alas only the final scenes) and DiDonato, Veasey delivers here.

Whilst I understand why this remained a benchmark for so long (partly because there was no serious rival until the recent release of the Nelson recording) overall it is incredibly disappointing.

N.
 
#81 · (Edited)
Berlioz fans had to wait for another 25 years until a new studio recording was released, this time by Dutoit. This is the recording with which I became more familiar with the opera as it was the only available version on CD when I bought it (due to the Davis being out of print and prior to the 2001 recording being made).

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I liked the clear, digital sound (which is still superb) and I liked the singing. However, having now listened to it in direct comparison with the other recordings I find the conducting rather dull and incredibly prosaic. Dutoit smooths over the idiosyncrasies in the score and 'flatlines' emotionally.

The singers are all ok, but despite a wonderful Hylas from John Mark Ainsley there is little else to enjoy here. Vogt is a competent Cassandre, but doesn't exploit the pathos and drama that other singers such as Lang or Lemieux find in the role in the later recordings. Lakes sounds rather weedy and uneven and although he has the lyricism in places that Vickers lacked, it isn't consistent and this is a decidedly fainthearted portrayal of Aeneas. Pollet at least gives us an authentically French Dido, but she too lacks any real character (not helped of course by the flaccid conducting).

One thing that this recording has that the others don't are a scene in act one that was cut before the planned premiere and a prelude before act three that Berlioz composed for the premiere of the second half of the opera. Neither of these pieces are essential in my opinion and I am quite happy to do without them.

This was my least favourite of the four and given a choice between this recording and the Davis, I'd go with the Davis.

N.
 
#82 · (Edited)
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The next recording chronologically was another Davis one, this time live as part of his series with the LSO. It's interesting comparing the conducting with his earlier studio issue. It's always Davis and it's always Berlioz, but there are differences between the two. There are moments where I prefer what he does in 1969 and others that work better in 2001. For example my favourite recording of the well known March is the one heard here.

Overall I also prefer the cast here to that on the 1969 recording. Petra Lang is a superb Cassandre, beating both the unchecked vocality of Lindholm and the dull performance of Voigt. If you like your Cassandre to go all out batshite crazy, this is for you. Heppner is too light for Aeneas, but is better than Vickers or Lakes (both of whom set a very low bar for the role). DeYoung is the only singer in the three main roles where I prefer the earlier set (Veasey is hard to beat). There's nothing wrong with DeYoung, however her lack of emotion and drama is reminiscent of Pollet.

There is much to recommend this set and it is interesting how the first two acts are the chief draw here, whereas it was the last three acts that were the principal attraction of the earlier Davis set. Get both and listen to different parts of each?

N.
 
#83 ·
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The fourth and final set came out in late 2017 and like the second Davis one is based around a concert performance of the opera. Nelson has spent over 45 years conducting Berlioz and he is a worthy candidate to take on Davis' mantle of chief Berlioz specialist. Comparing this set with the two Davis versions it is worthy to stand alongside those two in terms of the conducting and on conducting alone I can't pick a winner from the three, there are places I prefer one over the other two in all of them. Some may find the sound on the earlier Davis not up to scratch, but all the four recordings I have reviewed are in very good sound IMO.

What distinguishes this set is the singers. Lemieux is my favourite Cassandre from all the various CD and DVD recordings (including some live performances of the opera on CD that I haven't included in my review). It helps that she is a true francophone and she uses every word in the text to portray every nuance of this character's fate. In act two she goes completely bonkers to such a degree that she is metaphorically sticking two fingers up to those who see this opera as staid, long winded or boring. Spyres is also the best Aeneas on disc and his French is very good to my ear. He has the perfect blend of heroic squillo and light, lyrical finesse that Berlioz demands. DiDonato makes an excellent Dido - she is only beaten by Janet Baker and whilst I prefer Veasey's tone and size of voice for the part, DiDonato's impassioned delivery of the final scenes are so heart-rending that I prefer her over Veasey.

There is some fine singing from the supporting cast who are all (or almost all) francophone singers (and it tells). This then is the definitive Troyens now. Whilst I understand why the Davis 1969 version has obtained the status of reference recording (it was the only one available for 25 years and had no realistic rival until 2001), I'm afraid it no longer can claim to hold that place as this set knocks it out of the water on all fronts. There are certainly places where I prefer the conducting on that earlier set, however overall Nelson is as much the consummate Berliozian and his cast has no weak links unlike all the other recordings.

I would rank the four recordings thus:

1) Nelson

2) Davis 2001

3) Davis 1969

4) Dutoit (Although this is way below the others)

N.
 
#84 · (Edited)
I agree with a lot of what you have to say, the main difference being our diametrically opposed views on Vickers's Enée. For the conducting, I mostly prefer Davis I to Davis II, but there are moments when the reverse is true. Lang is much better than Lindholm and Voigt, but I don't much like De Young, who sounds too blowsy for my taste. I much prefer Veasey.

There is also a great deal I like about the Nelson set, especially DiDonato's Didon. She is an intelligent and musical singer, with a fabulous stage presence, though we we obviously don't see that here. I just miss that last ounce of individuality and engagement you get from Baker, a singer, paradoxically, whom DiDonato evidently admires a great deal. Spyres is excellent too, but I can't get way from feeling that, in the house, and in a staged as opposed to concert performance, he would be underpowered. Nevertheless the Nelson is a superb performance, and undoubtedly the best we have had since Davis.

If asked to choose a preference. I would probably put the two Davis versions just ahead of the Nelson, with the Dutoit trailing far behind.
 
#87 · (Edited)
I've heard it, but aside from the wonderful Lorraine Hunt Lieberson, I didn't think it had much else to commend it. On this showing, Levine is definitely not a Berlioz conductor, and the rest of the cast aren't up to much.

Another live performance ruined by its conductor is Prêtre in this 1969 radio broadcast. It's a great shame, because the three main soloists (Gedda as Enée, Horne as Cassandre and Verrett as Didon) have a lot going for them.

 
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