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Historical Wagner Recordings...............

800K views 5K replies 147 participants last post by  Seattleoperafan 
#1 ·
I have many Wagner recordings, but am a bit light on the great mono historical recordings.

Which are the ones I need to get? Your favorites?

thanks
 
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#118 ·
Hey DA
Check out this cast.............:)

 
#121 ·
I'll just jump in here for no good reason and say, with great diplomatic finesse, that I find Kna's '51 Parsifal powerful and profound in spots but a little lacking in momentum and cohesion. His tempos in the work got faster over his Bayreuth years (1951 to 1964), and although tempo doesn't necessarily correlate with drama, his later, quicker performances seem to me about perfect in both respects. The '62 is a beautifully cohesive performance in which I find the contemplative and dramatic elements ideally balanced. I've read that the final performance from '64 with Vickers as Parsifal is even more dramatic, but I've only heard the final scene, which is on YT.

This matter of "authentic" tempo in Wagner is complicated. It's true that Wagner complained about people dragging his music, but I think that has to be seen in the context of the music's complexity and originality. Wagner packs an unprecedented amount of harmonic change into a small space, and the natural tendency of musicians would have been to slow things down to get it all in and clearly articulated. We have a few timings for Wagner's own performances of his preludes, and while he took the Meistersinger prelude quickly, his two timed performances of the Parsifal prelude are about average modern tempos, with one of them on the slow side of that - much slower than Kna in '62. It's also documented that when he took the baton from Levi at the final performance and led the last scene himself, the singers said it was slow enough to challenge their breath support. Perhaps he was just feeling sentimental - his speech of gratitude to the performers after it was over supposedly had them crying - but it's clear that a range of tempo is appropriate in Wagner as in any composer. Whatever works!
 
#122 · (Edited)
Well, so far I've listened to Rheingold, Walkure Act 3 and Gotter Act 3.
WOW, Hotter and Varnay in Walkure are phenomenal just like you said DA. And the Magic Fire Music was beautifully done
The Rheingold was great too holding my attention throughout. Especially liked the giants, Greindl and Weber.
Gotter Act 3 is one of the best ever. Siegfried's Funeral music totally gripping, his stabbing very horrifying, Varnay just awesome throughout, emolation scene heartwrenching and beautiful.
The sound throughout is very good.

Something else i really love is that MYTO payed attention to placing as many complete acts as they could on individual discs which i LOOOOOOOVE.

Some nice photos too.

Needless to say, enjoying this set. :)
Can't wait to get the Knappy 57 and 58.:)

ps what do you think of that Tannhauser i posted?
 
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#130 ·
It's an embarrassment of riches DA :)
 
#124 ·
Could i be liking Varnay more than Nilsson? :eek: :)
 
#126 ·
Listening now to K52 Walkure Act 1 to check out Treptow.
i get the chills every time i hear those opening stings.
i wonder if Williams got his Jaws music here :)
 
#128 ·
i noticed it says Archipel on the MYTO sets. Are they the same company?
 
#131 ·
Just finished Act 1 Walkure. Keilberth uses a fast tempo at the end here, but man, is it exciting.
Borkh is so alluring and Teptow really lets go with the emotion.
Greindl is awesome, of course.
I'll be listening to this again. :)
 
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#135 ·
Note to Itullian, the Wagner fever has not abated, purchased a very cheap Walhall 1958 Bayreuth Lohengrin set.......unusual for having Cluytens in the saddle as conductor



Instead of paying a fortune for the Kubelik Parsifal with Sandor Konya I will go this route, you know Varnay will be great Ortud........
 
#136 ·
You rascal. That's on my list :)
 
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#141 ·


Listening to act 3.............
 
#146 ·
Also, this is a great Siegfried. Varnay and Aldenhoff make a compelling team.
You ever heard of him? I like him.

It's nice when we find items at import with 1.50 shipping instead of 4d Amazon.
 
#148 ·
Man, he sure sounds good.

Cant wait to get those Knappy's. They sound great on youtube.

We were thinking the same thing :)
 
#149 ·
His Act 3 duet with Varnay is a killer.
Take a listen DA :)
 
#150 ·
He was German, raised in an orphanage, started out singing Verdi, Manrico, then became, "the last" heldentenor.

From Wiki;

Bernd Aldenhoff was not only one of the last heldentenors, but also one of the most interesting. Knappertsbusch called him the most "human heldentenor" of his time.

As an interpreter, Aldenhoff was, without a doubt, the most precise and sensitive Wagner tenor of his generation.

I'm now a fan :)
 
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#152 · (Edited)
I have been occasionally reading the posts in this thread and have what might seem like a dumb question ... what constitutes a historical recording? I have seen mention of recordings from the early 60s. Are you focusing more on non-commercial performances which have been released on disk, either bootleg or now after copyright has expired? I ask because in a major household sort-out, I came across two Sawallisch/Bayreuth performances which I bought decades ago, both with Anja Silja. One is Flying Dutchman, the other is Tannhauser, both on Philips. In the case of the Tannhauser, I bought it on 7" open reel tape back when such things were done! Apparently I transferred it to CD about 10 years ago.

P.S. As I remember, I bought the Dutchman in the mid 60s and had to have it specially ordered by a local record store which would do imports on demand.
 
#153 ·
I have been occasionally reading the posts in this thread and have what might seem like a dumb question ... what constitutes a historical recording? I have seen mention of recordings from the early 60s. Are you focusing more on non-commercial performances which have been released on disk, either bootleg or now after copyright has expired? I ask because in a major household sort-out, I came across two Sawallisch/Bayreuth performances which I bought decades ago, both with Anja Silja. One is Flying Dutchman, the other is Tannhauser, both on Philips. In the case of the Tannhauser, I bought it on 7" open reel tape back when such things were done! Apparently I transferred it to CD about 10 years ago.
I was wondering this as well.

I've been trying to dig into and listen to more historical Wagner recordings as of late myself, because it seems to me if you want to listen to the finest interpretations of Wagner you will simply have to get used to less immediately impressive sound, since the greatest period of Wagner singing seems to have been roughly between 1920 to 1960. I listened to the Tristan und Isolde from 1936 with Flagstad and Melchoir and led by Fritz Reiner recently and was absolutely bowled over at hearing the power of these singers in their primes, although the Furtwängler with a more mature Flagsatd still stands supreme for me.

I wanted to give a shout out for the reference to the 1960 Die Meistersinger under Knappertsbusch on Myto. A fantastic performance and a fantastic deal that I took advantage of as soon as I saw it. Thanks so much!!!
 
#154 ·
I don't think its easily defined except I think we mean recordings from the "Golden Age" of Wagner singing up through early 60's.
Mono recordings mostly.
 
#158 ·
DA
I couldn't resist and ordered the Cluytens Lohengrin from importcds.

Guess what. The postage is now 2.99 :mad:
 
#159 ·
I keep forgetting Presto UK has sound samples.......we have struck gold again, great sound and amazing singing! Konya and Rysanek sound divine together and Varnay's dark Ortud is almost beyond description

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Walhall/WLCD0250#listen



The shipping price is minor setback, look how much Presto wants for that Lohengrin compared to importcds.com
 
#165 ·
Parsifal, make no mistake, this is the best (cast aside "subjective" and "objective" claims):

Black Font Musical instrument Publication Suit


Tristan und Isolde:

Automotive tire Line Font Motor vehicle Terrestrial plant


The Ring:

Damn L.A. Opera for not recording their magisterial cycle (indeed, I was present for the series), but still, it's Solit, either one:

World Font Line Heat Advertising
Product Sleeve Font Automotive design Material property


...also perfect:

Publication Cosmetics Book Font Gadget
 
#167 ·
Chomping at the bit for that Cluytens Lohengrin.
 
#168 ·
Don't be too greedy........
you have the 1960 Kempe and 1952 Keilberth Rings to keep you busy while you wait :lol:

I was going to mention to Masada above that fans of historical wagner recordings may not be huge fans of the LA Ring, although I am curious to see video version just to see how far they actually took things......

 
#169 ·
Yes DA, they are good company:)

When the LA Ring was being performed the LA Opera website showed many pics and scenes from it.
It was the most garish, ludicrous thing ever. Things flying around, clownlike images etc.
Needless to say, I didn't attend.:)
 
#170 ·
If you're looking to amuse yourself for a couple of days why not do a direct comparison of the Bayreuth '53 Ring cycles by Kraus and Keilberth. Essentially the same casts so the fun is in listening to the differing interpretations by the two conductors. Personally, I can live with both. :cool:
 
#172 · (Edited)
Sorry Dark Angel. I paid about $60 dollars for a download copy from Opera Depot. Haven't seen it cheaper anywhere else. If you put a gun to my head I'll sway towards the Keilberth but only just. The Kempe '60 is the one to have although the '61 gives it a run for its money. Kempe is better in '61 but the cast sing better in '60 but we're splitting hairs now. It's like trying to pick a favourite child which is usually the one that's least annoying at that moment!! Only kidding kids!
 
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#173 ·
The CD version of 1953 Keilberth Ring is really expensive now on Amazon USA, hope you also like 1952 Keilberth Ring as we have been loving that here recently......also we all love the 1960 Kempe Ring, recent sale prices on Myto label make getting these very affordable now

Do you have a view on 1957 & 1958 Knappy Rings available very cheap now on Walhall label?

 
#174 ·
Nothing to choose between either of them On balance the principal singers are in better form in '58 but you have Elisabeth Grummer's debut as Gutrune in '57 which I find marginally better than in '58. Windgassen and Varnay vary from opera to opera over both cycles but I should mention that the '56 cycle is, to my ears, very good. Modl wasn't at her absolute best but still acts her socks off and is a very subtle and emotive Brunnhilde. A bit less histrionic than Varnay. Again, in my opinion only.
 
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#176 ·
Really enjoying this journey thru the 52 Keilberth and cant wait to order the Knappys.
 
#177 ·
Cluytens Lohengrin has shipped :)
 
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