Thread: What Are The Best and/or Your Favorite Puccini Operas?

Originally Posted by Elgarian

Snigger at my naivete if you must, but ... if the plot of Tosca had permitted some sort of hope at the end (not necessarily a happy ending, but one that allowed even a chink of light into the darkness), I know I would love it to distraction. As it is, my pleasure in it is always tempered by this discrepancy between the beauty of what's being heard, and the horror of what's actually happening. Am I alone in this?

Sometimes a story without hope can make us a little more introspective; a little more aware of how our own actions can affect others. Another example of a great opera that concludes without hope is Berg's Wozzeck, and again there is a disparity between the events of the opera and the beauty of the music.

But then there is, I think, a certain disparity in much music that is tragic. Hopelessness, despair or brutality can be conveyed by music that is beautiful, or exciting. A good example of the latter is Mars from The Planets, where brutality is conveyed by means of exciting music.

I went for Turandot and Mme. B. I wanted to push the Tosca button too but there is just not enough in it to compare to the other two.

I think Elgarians point about a pesemistic ending to Tosca is right. After all it is a tragedy. The moral of the tale is very clear. 'Don't get mixed up with gullable, narsicsistic sopranos if you value your life!' The victim is Mario who did nothing wrong except falling in love with Tosca, who didn't deserve to die if it wasn't for the fact that she was the cause of Mario's demise. Scarpia is the most unrewarding role in the whole of Puccini - You sing half the opera, don't get the girl, get killed and then get booed at the curtain call! That's got to be tough!

Originally Posted by post-minimalist

I think Elgarians point about a pesemistic ending to Tosca is right. After all it is a tragedy. The moral of the tale is very clear. 'Don't get mixed up with gullable, narsicsistic sopranos if you value your life!' The victim is Mario who did nothing wrong except falling in love with Tosca, who didn't deserve to die if it wasn't for the fact that she was the cause of Mario's demise. Scarpia is the most unrewarding role in the whole of Puccini - You sing half the opera, don't get the girl, get killed and then get booed at the curtain call! That's got to be tough!

When I wrote those earlier posts, I was very heavily influenced by having recently seen Opera North's bleak and despairing production - I came away from it with two deeply conflicting impressions: the magnificence of the music, and the hopeless bleakness of the production, which particularly emphasised the wretchedness of the business. For instance, in that production, at the end Tosca doesn't leap to her death as Puccini intended - which does at least represent an existential (or should that be non-existential) choice on her part. No, she's shot through the head, casually, callously, and emotionlessly, by a man in a raincoat; and her body slides down the wall like a rag doll.

So looking back, I think my comments were more driven by a particular production, than by the opera as Puccini conceived it. Well, I shall have another chance to find out. The same production is coming round again later this month, so I shall see how it stands up to a second viewing.

Man! That's a bummer. She doesn't even get the choice of killing herself! You know the reason that she jumps so eagerly from the battlements is to persue and persecute Scarpia! It's the catharsis of the whole character of Tosca - finally she does 'the right thing'!

I voted for Butterfly, Tosca & La Boheme. I really do like those the most. Next would
be Manon Lascaut, then close between Rondine & Turandot, both of which I like parts of.
then Trittico, which I also like parts of a lot, but uneven to me overall. I've also never seen Edgar or Villi-- heard 'em but music not to me up to the others.

Ed

The most surprising thing to me about this poll so far is that there isn't a single vote for Manon Lescaut. Not that I think that it's as great as the big four, but it comes very close in my opinion. I'm glad that La Fanciulla del West got a vote though. Because it lacks the big arias that his other operas are famous for it's maybe Puccini's most underrated work, but it's very good and gets better with each listen.

Originally Posted by jhar26

The most surprising thing to me about this poll so far is that there isn't a single vote for Manon Lescaut.

It's a funny thing, but it's somehow never 'clicked' for me. I don't understand how, exactly, but I think it has quite a lot to do with my overwhelming fondness of Massenet's Manon - so I can't seem to listen to Puccini's version without wishing it were Massenet's. I'm aware that doesn't make much sense, but it seems to be what happens.

Originally Posted by Elgarian

It's a funny thing, but it's somehow never 'clicked' for me. I don't understand how, exactly, but I think it has quite a lot to do with my overwhelming fondness of Massenet's Manon - so I can't seem to listen to Puccini's version without wishing it were Massenet's. I'm aware that doesn't make much sense, but it seems to be what happens.

I can understand that and I like the Massenet opera as well. But the difference I guess is that I was familiar with the Puccini opera years before I got to know the Massenet. And the Puccini opera isn't perfect in that a lot of the story isn't included in the opera. What happened between acts one and two warrants an extra scene in my opinion, and how did Manon and Des Greux all of a sudden end up in that desert in the fourth act? The fourth act isn't necessary - act three would have been the perfect (and even a sort of) happy ending, even though I must admit that act four has some great music

hmmm....Nessum Dorma is my favorite Puccini aria. I think texture-wise, I like La Boheme better.

I think that in 'Tosca' it doesn't really matter if she is shot or if she commits suicide, it is quite clear that there was no way to survive this. Of course it is horrible and bleak but the melodramatic excesses aside it is a very realistic and timeless opera –things like these do happen. I am from a country where human right abuses by police and paramilitary groups are daily routine and Tosca really seems like a contemporary artwork to me. And there is a touch of hope, Puccini seems to say that the most precious things in life are the simple everyday things with your loved ones.

My favourite Puccini operas are Tosca, La Boheme and M.Butterfly. I think that they form a kind of unofficial trilogy. Each one touches an important and thorny issue (state sanctioned violence, misconceptions about the class issues, sex tourism and colonialism). In each of these operas we watch several young and innocent people losing their illusions about the world as they have a terrible crash on reality. For me all three are operas about maturity, with the heroes realising (before the tragic endings) that they can not create a safe and secure inner world by simply ignoring the outside reality.

Turandot is Puccini brightest masterpiece, too bad it was left incomplete at his death.

I voted the Trittico and nothing more because I think that Il Tabarro and Gianni Schicchi are two often underappreciated gems.
It is too hard for me to choose between Tosca,Madame Butterfly or La Boheme.

A superb composer for the voice. Not necessarily for the whole thing and the Orchestra, in particular.
I believe, following the vocal lines, his Operas are all of great interest, from the very first (the "poor" Villi) to the majestic Turandot. Otherwise, I don't care that much for any one of them as a whole.
Sometimes, I feel a vacuum in the whole concept of the work (La Boheme), or the orchestral treatment (e.g. Trittico) or going over the top (Turandot), even brilliantly, or getting a bit trivial (La Rondine), or too mundane (Manon Lescaut).
In general, a composer to cherish him in every single work of his for some extremely memorable tunes, exquisite arias and splendid theatrical scenes. All these can be found in every work of his. Just note: the most famous tune (o mio babbino caro) can be found in the least interesting of his works!

Principe

Principe

Not unless she's in love with Daddy . . .

Bardamu, I said the "most famous", not the best.
To my surprise, I discovered that, even in remote areas of this globe, quite a few people know, sing, whistle or play it on the piano. Some ladies even seem to be moved actually. Men also appear to adore it.
If some (maybe quite a few) people believe it is a love song, blame the music, not the soprano. If you listen to the music only, without any knowledge of the words...one can be easily mislead. My wife cannot possibly believe that this is not a "love song".
Anyway, Puccini was not the perfect composer. However, a wonderful one, particularly for the voice.

Principe