Classical Music Forum banner

Is Leonard Bernstein A Great Composer?

Is Leonard Bernstein A Great Composer?

21K views 181 replies 46 participants last post by  EmperorOfIceCream 
#1 ·
I am more interested in LB as a composer for this thread's discussion rather than his conducting. He is perhaps better appreciated and known as a conductor but I would like to focus on his composing abilities.

I listened to West Side Story, a contemporary classical piece composed in 1961 (I think) which I found quite enjoyable.

I think Bernstein was a capable contemporary composer.

 
See less See more
1
#2 ·
I am aware he wrote a Mass which is also quite well regarded by as an accessible contemporary classical piece. I have not yet listened to this.
 
#3 ·
May I recommend Marin Alsop's recording on Naxos, with Jubilant Sykes as the soloist. I was unimpressed by my first encounter with the work, the Kent Nagano / Jerry Hadley recording on HM, but Alsop and Sykes totally changed my mind.

Font Sleeve Poster Music Electric blue


As for your poll, sorry, I won't vote. I disagree with the "great" label, as you know, and you've eliminated the "Who cares?" option for me with the gratuitous "Who is Bernstein?"
 
#7 ·
Your poll options do not make too much sense to me...

Yes, a very fine if not great composer - first it says "yes" but then "fine if not great"
Yes, a capable composer - "capable" seems rather lukewarm adjective compared to "great", but still it says "yes" ??
Some may think composer X is great, others may think well of the composer but maybe not great. That's all. In any case, you may avoid voting and just comment / post an opinion on the topic.
 
#5 ·
That sounds like a good recommendation. Shall give that a listen. I like Naxos.

(All my polls give equal voices to all (like a Bach fugue), for I am been accused of being biased, which my poll options prove there is no bias.)
 
#6 ·
Certainly a capable composer, but taken overall his works are uneven in quality. My personal preference is for his stage works, especially West Side Story, a truly iconic work marking its time and making important statements. And 'Candide' has been rather underrated. The Mass is frankly a mess, and the Kaddish Symphony leaves me very cold: the first two symphonies are certainly better works.
 
#9 ·
Mass was an ambitious work - part ballet, part theatre and part oratorio with a bit of Hair/Godspell-style Peace Generation hipness thrown in (perhaps not surprising as Stephen Schwartz, the composer of Godspell, also wrote lyrics for Mass). It's one of Bernstein's more curious works - certainly interesting and an entertaining listen but coming across somewhat awkwardly in places and overall it's not quite the sum of its parts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Manxfeeder
#10 ·
I don't really know enough of his works to judge. I've listened to bits of West Side Story and I've listened to his Mass.

I can't say that I'm too impressed with the musical content of the Mass, but he was going for something a bit wacky with it so I guess this is to be expected. I enjoyed it nevertheless.

I agree with a couple of the other posters - your title of the thread is "Is Leonard Bernstein A Great Composer?", yet you don't have an option to answer that he is a great composer!
 
G
#12 ·
I am more interested in LB as a composer for this thread's discussion rather than his conducting. He is perhaps better appreciated and known as a conductor but I would like to focus on his composing abilities.
Yes, the word "composer" in the subject heading was a dead giveaway.

I listened to West Side Story, a contemporary classical piece composed in 1961 (I think) which I found quite enjoyable.
It's easy enough to find out that West Side Story was completed in 1957.

Also, isn't it stretching things a bit to call 1957 contemporary? I'm not prepared to go to the mat on this, but it did seem odd to load things up with all sorts of descriptors when "composed in..." would have sufficed.

I think Bernstein was a capable contemporary composer.
I know you've been asked this question before, but if you already know the answer, why are you asking? And if your answer is "to find out what other people think," then I would say that you've done enough of these cookie cutter threads to know already that some of us reject the concept of greatness, some of those who have not rejected it will think that Bernstein is great, and some will think that Bernstein is not great.

This is why, by the way, that the issues of bias and hidden agendas keep coming up with your polls. There seems to be no obvious reason for doing them--on the face of it--therefore there must be some other reason. As you have made it clear over and over again what your hidden agenda is, it can hardly be called "hidden" any more, though.

Anyway, you seem to have one or two prominent ideas that you favor, and you seem to listen to music in order to use it to confirm those ideas. I would encourage you to consider the possibility that music does not exist in order to substantiate anyone's ideas about the world but in order to give pleasure by means of sounds and combinations of sounds.

I would love to hear you talk about music itself rather than about the various boxes into which you put this or that piece or this or that composer.
 
#24 · (Edited by Moderator)
Yes, the word "composer" in the subject heading was a dead giveaway.

It's easy enough to find out that West Side Story was completed in 1957.

Also, isn't it stretching things a bit to call 1957 contemporary? I'm not prepared to go to the mat on this, but it did seem odd to load things up with all sorts of descriptors when "composed in..." would have sufficed.

I know you've been asked this question before, but if you already know the answer, why are you asking? And if your answer is "to find out what other people think," then I would say that you've done enough of these cookie cutter threads to know already that some of us reject the concept of greatness, some of those who have not rejected it will think that Bernstein is great, and some will think that Bernstein is not great.

This is why, by the way, that the issues of bias and hidden agendas keep coming up with your polls. There seems to be no obvious reason for doing them--on the face of it--therefore there must be some other reason. As you have made it clear over and over again what your hidden agenda is, it can hardly be called "hidden" any more, though.

Anyway, you seem to have one or two prominent ideas that you favor, and you seem to listen to music in order to use it to confirm those ideas. I would encourage you to consider the possibility that music does not exist in order to substantiate anyone's ideas about the world but in order to give pleasure by means of sounds and combinations of sounds.

I would love to hear you talk about music itself rather than about the various boxes into which you put this or that piece or this or that composer.
This thread isn't about me. It's about Leonard Bernstein and you as a listener. I may well know my own answer but I am interested in other people's views: it is called a discussion. Pure and simple.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sid James and Sloe
#13 ·
I like his stage works (including Mass) and Chichester Psalms, Symphony #2, Fancy Free, Songfest, Arias and Barcarolles and the Divertimento best.

It's hard to believe that come October 14 this year, he will be gone 25 years. He left so many videos and recordings from which one can learn that it seems as though he's still here....

BTW, the movie of West Side Story came out in '61; the Broadway show debuted in '57.
 
#14 ·
Why would you create a poll entitled, "Is Leonard Bernstein a Great Composer?" and not have an option for "Yes, he is a great composer?" Is this a joke?
 
#16 ·
That's the usual criticism of Bernstein's music. It doesn't impress me, whereas much of Bernstein's music impresses me as being unmistakably his own. I'm not very fond of most of it, but it's expertly written and often striking. "Eclectic" it may be, but who cares? So is a lot of other fine music. Perhaps if Lenny had taken that advice and gone into hermitage, he wouldn't have written anything at all.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Awww, don't be harsh, folks! I think it's a reasonable question, and no amount of complaining about the poll choices, etc. is going to get us anywhere.

I think that Bernstein was rather more accomplished as a conductor than as a composer. That said, West Side Story, Candide, Chichester Psalms and one or two of his symphonies are fine works. Bernstein was a versatile musician, and I think this shows up most clearly in his music, which ranges from Broadway musical to symphony. If he wasn't up to par with, say, Samuel Barber, it's probably for the reason that he had so much else on his agenda. You have to remember that he was a full-time conductor and also gave lectures, wrote books, and was also an accomplished pianist.

He did pretty well given the fact that he had so many different talents. Was he great as a composer? In the case of West Side Story, I would probably agree.

P.S. I forgot to mention the music for On the Waterfront. In my opinion, one of the ten finest film scores ever written.
 
G
#21 ·
Awww, don't be harsh, folks! I think it's a reasonable question, and no amount of complaining about the poll choices, etc. is going to get us anywhere.
But Celloman, that's just the point--we don't think it's a reasonable question many of us, and if none of the poll choices gives an option for "yes, he was great," then there's something wrong there, too.

You have to remember that he was a full-time conductor and also gave lectures, wrote books, and was also an accomplished pianist.
I have one word for you here: Gustav Mahler.
 
#26 ·
Let me preface this as being a huge fan of West Side Story, but no, I don't consider him a great composer.

When compared to the best of the 20th and late 20th century, he pales.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Morimur
#28 ·
I was surprised to find that so many in this thread feel Bernstein was something less than a great composer -- but then, I'm relatively new to "classical music," my first love being the Broadway musical. I had no idea that some consider his music to be "derivative"; in fact, I've heard a few pieces by later composers that sound like Bernstein.

Of his works there's the obvious WEST SIDE STORY and CANDIDE, but I also wanted to mention his film score for ON THE WATERFRONT, which I feel is brilliant.

In short, he's not my favorite Broadway composer, but I do think he was extremely talented.
 
#38 ·
I was surprised to find that so many in this thread feel Bernstein was something less than a great composer -- but then, I'm relatively new to "classical music," my first love being the Broadway musical. I had no idea that some consider his music to be "derivative"; in fact, I've heard a few pieces by later composers that sound like Bernstein.
Undoubtedly there's some element of received wisdom in all our attitudes, so it's refreshing to hear the view of someone who hasn't been "sullied" in that respect.
The label "derivative" is a curse, because once the word comes up the listener will inevitably start looking for derivative things in the music rather than focusing on what might be original.
 
#29 ·
I still really think that he is one of the masterful composers of the previous century. He was one of the few intellectuals who could compose for a populist stance/situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bellinilover
#36 ·
I felt uncomfortable voting No. While I feel as if the (classical) oeuvre he produced is too small to make him a "great composer" as well as the lack of change in music he facilitated, not to mention the pastiche he skirts dangerously towards, he was definitely one of the five most important American voices in music throughout the 20th century. Maybe he was the most influential voice. He definitely did the most, in my opinion, to try to save "classical music", acting as an ambassador to the public with his charm and fame from the (non-classical) West Side Story. His conducting achievements are no small feat either.

The conductor of my local orchestra, Carl St. Clair (of the Pacific Symphony in Orange County) grew up in a small Texas town, population about 50, where he hadn't even heard (one assumes) of the world of classical music. One night he tuned in to a Bernstein performance of Tchaikovsky's 5th, and he was hooked. It was the first work he conducted on a big stage afterwards, and he speaks often at his concerts of the influence that Bernstein had on his entire career. I would assume that this is not a singular occurrence. A piano tuner I know said that he had this presence that made people turn around when he walked into the room that was kind of going into the 6th sense. Clearly his influence was immeasurable.

It really gets into the question of how much the philosophy of a composer impacts his music (and how his greatness is affected by the summation or subtraction of this quality). He was definitely a great musicologist - not one on the scale of Babbitt or Cage, to name a few - but perhaps that, in addition to his other accomplishments, could be added together to give him the title of "great". It's subjective. Does Schumann's status as a composer increase when one takes into account his writing for the Davidsbündler? One wonders.

Not for me, though. He has a similar problem as Gershwin does, perhaps. If he had settled down and focused on composition in the classical arena, who knows?
 
#41 ·
Incorrect, please read carefully what was written.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top