Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 194

Thread: Ring cycle : Barenboim vs. Levine vs. Karajan oh my!

  1. #121
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    1,324
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I'm listening to Solti's Gotterdammerung, and there isn't a better Gotterdammerung to be found. Wow. No one will ever convince me otherwise

  2. Likes Woodduck, Pugg liked this post
  3. #122
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,568
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kineno View Post
    Since it was telecast, some will hope for a blu-ray/dvd, though some will not, depending on reactions to the production!
    I am hoping for a release, and keeping my eyes out for a way to watch.

  4. #123
    Senior Member Sonata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,936
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    So a year later:

    I picked the Barenboim.
    I now have 3 of 4 of the Karajan.
    I plan to get the Solti box in a year or so
    And I plan to get Levine's Walkure for Norman, and maybe the Rheingold.

  5. #124
    Senior Member Becca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    4,311
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    For an interesting and slightly unusual performance of Rheingold...

    Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment / Simon Rattle (2004)
    Sir Willard White - Wotan
    Oleg Bryjak - Alberich
    Kim Begley - Loge
    Yvonne Naef - Fricka
    Robbin Leggate - Mime
    Geraldine McGreevy - Freia
    Anna Larsson - Erda
    James Rutherford - Donner
    Timothy Robinson - Froh
    Peter Rose - Fasolt
    Robert Lloyd - Fafner
    Kate Royal - Woglinde
    Karen England - Wellgunde
    Christine Rice - Flosshilde

    Yes ... HIP Wagner!


  6. Likes Belowpar, SixFootScowl liked this post
  7. #125
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    18,277
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gellio View Post
    I'm listening to Solti's Gotterdammerung, and there isn't a better Gotterdammerung to be found. Wow. No one will ever convince me otherwise
    For me the Gotterdammerung is the best part of the Solti Ring. He's a little lacking in inwardness and mystery in some of the quieter moments, but the reading as a whole has momentum, color, and grandeur. Great cast, of course: Nilsson at her stunning peak, Frick and Neidlinger iconic in their parts, Fischer -D. an excellent Gunther, Claire Watson a lovely Gutrune ... Even middle-aged non-heldentenor Windgassen gives a vital performance. Other segments of the Solti Ring have one or another significant flaw, depending partly on your taste, but I find little to complain about in the Gotterdammerung. It deserves its reputation. I'd rank the overall performances of the four segments in this order:

    1. Gotterdammerung
    2. Das Rheingold
    3. Siegfried (main problems: Stolze's grotesque Mime, Hotter a bit past his best)
    4. Die Walkure (main problems: Solti lets the momentum drop in act two, Hotter is well past his best, King lacks subtlety)

  8. Likes kineno liked this post
  9. #126
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    1,324
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    For me the Gotterdammerung is the best part of the Solti Ring. He's a little lacking in inwardness and mystery in some of the quieter moments, but the reading as a whole has momentum, color, and grandeur. Great cast, of course: Nilsson at her stunning peak, Frick and Neidlinger iconic in their parts, Fischer -D. an excellent Gunther, Claire Watson a lovely Gutrune ... Even middle-aged non-heldentenor Windgassen gives a vital performance. Other segments of the Solti Ring have one or another significant flaw, depending partly on your taste, but I find little to complain about in the Gotterdammerung. It deserves its reputation. I'd rank the overall performances of the four segments in this order:

    1. Gotterdammerung
    2. Das Rheingold
    3. Siegfried (main problems: Stolze's grotesque Mime, Hotter a bit past his best)
    4. Die Walkure (main problems: Solti lets the momentum drop in act two, Hotter is well past his best, King lacks subtlety)
    I would agree with you, except for Stolze. He is my favorite Mime ever and I think he does the part great justice in Siegfried. I also do not think there is a better Siegfried or Rheingold than Solti's. I also think his Walkure is underrated. Even a past-his-prime Hotter is better than most Wotan's on disc. For Walkure, I'd probably put Karajan's or Keilberth's 55 as my studio favorites. I also love Levine's for Norman and Morris. My all time favorite has to be Kna's '57 on Walhall. Jus amazing.

  10. #127
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    38,640
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gellio View Post
    I'm listening to Solti's Gotterdammerung, and there isn't a better Gotterdammerung to be found. Wow. No one will ever convince me otherwise
    They can be very cogently on this forum, so you are warned .

  11. #128
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Auburn Hills, Michigan
    Posts
    161
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mountmccabe View Post
    I am hoping for a release, and keeping my eyes out for a way to watch.
    Pirated DVDs of the telecasts of this year's Bayreuth Ring are available from Premiere Opera; got mine today. Not the quality we'd get from an official release, but at least a way to see the production.

  12. Likes mountmccabe liked this post
  13. #129
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    16,152
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    For me the Gotterdammerung is the best part of the Solti Ring. He's a little lacking in inwardness and mystery in some of the quieter moments, but the reading as a whole has momentum, color, and grandeur. Great cast, of course: Nilsson at her stunning peak, Frick and Neidlinger iconic in their parts, Fischer -D. an excellent Gunther, Claire Watson a lovely Gutrune ... Even middle-aged non-heldentenor Windgassen gives a vital performance. Other segments of the Solti Ring have one or another significant flaw, depending partly on your taste, but I find little to complain about in the Gotterdammerung. It deserves its reputation. I'd rank the overall performances of the four segments in this order:

    1. Gotterdammerung
    2. Das Rheingold
    3. Siegfried (main problems: Stolze's grotesque Mime, Hotter a bit past his best)
    4. Die Walkure (main problems: Solti lets the momentum drop in act two, Hotter is well past his best, King lacks subtlety)
    I agree with this assessment. The Gotterdamerung was a spupendous pioneering achievement at the time. The cast could scarcely be bettered and although Solti tends to conduct in punchy episodes but the whole thing is well done. Not too sure about the recording which tends to show more of the orchestra than Wagner intended. For me Karajan's is better conducted although not so strongly cast. Listen to his handlng of the Immolation Scene.
    In the first Act of Siegfried Hotter is in poor voice as the Wanderer and his scene with Mime (always a bit of a vocal trial) is painful to listen to. Later on Hotter improved vocally and Act 3 is good even though I prefer Karajan's conducting with the BPO. I can never see why Stoltze was chosen (both for Solti and Karajan) ahead of Wolfhart for Mime.
    By Walkure Hotter's voice had deteriorated so it is nothing like the vital interpretation he gave for Krauss. I find Kng as wooden as a piece of IKEA furniture - he doesn't hold a candle to Vickers in this part. Interesting that Culshaw actually asked D F-D if he was interested in the part as it is for a low lying tenor.
    Last edited by DavidA; Sep-04-2016 at 16:03.

  14. Likes Woodduck liked this post
  15. #130
    Senior Member howlingfantods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,512
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    I agree with this assessment. The Gotterdamerung was a spupendous pioneering achievement at the time. The cast could scarcely be bettered and although Solti tends to conduct in punchy episodes but the whole thing is well done. Not too sure about the recording which tends to show more of the orchestra than Wagner intended. For me Karajan's is better conducted although not so strongly cast. Listen to his handlng of the Immolation Scene.
    Solti's Gotterdammerung is almost great, but his Trauermarsch is completely wrong and I agree with your assessment that the Immolation Scene is not handled well. Considering those are the emotional peaks of the entire Ring Cycle, these seem like fatal flaws. YMMV.

    I also hate the cheesy sound effects--I wish they'd remove them in one of their constant remasterings.
    Last edited by howlingfantods; Sep-04-2016 at 19:29.

  16. Likes interestedin, SixFootScowl liked this post
  17. #131
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    1,717
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by howlingfantods View Post
    I also hate the cheesy sound effects--I wish they'd remove them in one of their constant remasterings.
    The only sound-effect that really bothers me in Solti's Götterdämmerung is that of Valhalla collapsing... or is it Grane galloping onto the funeral pyre? Either way, it just sounds like a bunch of bricks and/or wooden planks clattering briefly down a small incline and, in doing so, sounds both inadequate and irritating at the same time. Apart from that, I can only remember one (non-vocal) sound-effect in Solti's Götterdämmerung, and that's Hagen cutting the drinking-horn in half after Gunther and Siegfried's oath. I quite like that one; it has a satisfying "thwack" to it.

  18. #132
    Senior Member howlingfantods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,512
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    There's also some fake storm noises when Waltraute drops in for a chat, IIRC.

  19. #133
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    18,277
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    YMMV? IRRC?

    Please translate for us old folks. We feel obsolete enough already. WOL! (Wheezing out loud.)

  20. Likes DavidA, interestedin, SixFootScowl liked this post
  21. #134
    Senior Member Becca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    4,311
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    They also played games with Windgassen's voice where Siegried woos Brunnhilde in the form of Gunther. They pitched it down towards the baritone range using (my guess having used one) a specially modified type of tape recorder which featured a spinning head and adjustable speed so that you can change the speed or pitch independent of each other.

  22. Likes Woodduck liked this post
  23. #135
    Senior Member howlingfantods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,512
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    YMMV? IRRC?

    Please translate for us old folks. We feel obsolete enough already. WOL! (Wheezing out loud.)

    Sorry--Your Mileage May Vary, and If I Recall Correctly.

  24. Likes Woodduck, Granate liked this post
Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. What do you think of Barenboim's Bruckner Symphony cycle?
    By karajan in forum Recorded Music and Publications
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: Oct-27-2020, 23:43
  2. Which was the best Beethoven cycle by Karajan?
    By SAKO in forum Classical Music Discussion Polls
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: Nov-15-2019, 14:43
  3. Replies: 23
    Last Post: Oct-01-2018, 17:56
  4. Barenboim's ring: a surprise...
    By myaskovsky2002 in forum Opera on DVD, Blu-ray and CD
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Mar-08-2012, 21:05
  5. Barenboim's DG DDD Beethoven sonata cycle................
    By Itullian in forum Recorded Music and Publications
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Jan-23-2012, 20:16

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •