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Thread: VPO still practicing Nazi policy?

  1. #1
    Victor Redseal
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    Default VPO still practicing Nazi policy?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...a-philharmonic

    It’s billed as the biggest classical-music concert of the calendar, which starts the New Year with two hours of sweet, innocent waltzes.
    And this year especially, the orchestra at the heart of the show is facing persistent and increasing charges of illegal discrimination against women and minorities, along with ugly secrets that keep arising from its distant Nazi past.
    The Vienna Philharmonic’s concert is watched on television by as many as 60 million viewers in 81 countries, the totals rising year by year. Rather than being uplifting, for many viewers it’s depressing to note how few women can be seen.
    Out of 126 members of the VPO, just six are women. On stage, for most of this week’s concert, only three or four could be counted, with two more coming on for cameos -- one of them a debutante flautist, Karin Bonelli.

    ***

    The VPO operates a similar barrier against ethnic minorities. There are no Asian or non-white members, even though one third of the students at Vienna’s University of Music come from the Far East. A tuba player from the New Japan Philharmonic, Yasuhito Sugiyama, won an audition to play at the State Opera in 2003, but was refused membership of the Philharmonic. After three years, Sugiyama quit Vienna to join the world-class Cleveland Orchestra.

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    Old news, but still good for wrapping fresh sole...which we'll enjoy this evening.

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    Senior Member D Smith's Avatar
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    Admins- Is there a way to block this sub forum? I’m getting tired of having to look at thread titles like this when I log on to TC.

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    Senior Member SiegendesLicht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Smith View Post
    Admins- Is there a way to block this sub forum? I’m getting tired of having to look at thread titles like this when I log on to TC.
    This is a way to keep all such threads in one place. Otherwise they would be crawling all over the boards.
    ... yet for us will still remain the holy German art... (Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg)
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    But since our hearts are small,
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    Beloved over all.
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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    I enjoy the post-New Year's invitation-only concerts where the VPO doff their usual attire and appear, resplendent, in their Nazi uniforms. Quite stirring as they break into the Horst Wessel Lied, in the famous Karajan arrangement.

    (Note to mods: Dry humor intended.)
    Last edited by KenOC; Oct-11-2015 at 01:00.


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  10. #6
    Victor Redseal
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    People, I chose that title for the thread because that is the title of the article: Nazi Past, Female Phobia Afflict Vienna Philharmonic. I see no reason why that should be such a big deal. Is your conscience bothering you??

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    The article is almost three years old. The entire issue has been hashed and rehashed here long since. Naturally some might think it was resurrected in a spirit of divisiveness.

    Much better to discuss really interesting issues, like, did Wagner carry a Nazi party card?


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  13. #8
    Victor Redseal
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    Who cares how old it is? Why should it be divisive unless your conscience is bothering you? If there's a rebuttal to the article then where is a source? If VPO changed their policies then where is a source? If there isn't either of these then it should be brought up again. Why is that a problem?

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    Senior Member GreenMamba's Avatar
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    Your title claims they are still practicing Nazism, which seems a bit overheated.

    Since you asked, is *your* conscience bothering you?

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    Senior Member Vesteralen's Avatar
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    I don't know anything about their politics. I just find them pretty darn boring to watch.

    Impure and complex.

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    The VPO's own take on the Nazi era, and their role, is on their website in English. Interesting reading.

    http://www.wienerphilharmoniker.at/orchestra/history/national-sozialism

    I'm not sure what the VPO has to do with my conscience, which has plenty of other matters to concern it. But I welcome explanation!
    Last edited by KenOC; Oct-11-2015 at 04:01.


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    Senior Member helenora's Avatar
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    Here is an article about Munich Philharmonic and it happened not just 3 years ago but earlier. And reading it that time someone would have never predicted this kind of story will be in practice later in future, but so it is. The world of professional musicians is still full of prejudices of different kind, not just sexism described in this article. I found this interesting reading when I wanted to know more about my favorite Celibidache ....., yes, the article is not about VPO, not about having whatever party card or not, and it's less obvious about their other policies but still it is about oppression of "minorities" . And we should always keep in mind that it the world of classical music orchestras changes in whatever policies are not rapidly taken. It's very conservative. The article deals just with one case, but the way how administration of the city backed a conductor's illogical decisions shows that it wasn't just about one petty tyrant, but quite rationally well-thought approach of an entire social system.
    http://www.osborne-conant.org/ladies.htm
    Man muss das Leben tanzen

  22. #13
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    The VPO is my favourite orchestra, and unlike some here I find them a joy to watch.

    I can't see why this old topic has surfaced again. As already pointed out, it was doing the rounds about 3 years ago. For anyone who doesn't know about this topic, it's simply a "google" away, where you'll get all the information you could possibly require in an objective form.

    Whenever I see reference to "Nazi" on any TC thread, I know with virtual 100% certainty two things: (i) it's been here before (either exactly, or in a slightly different guise), (ii) I'll find the whole thing highly tedious whether it's something new or old.

    Personally I'd like the Admins to ban all this kind of stuff completely, or allow it only on the "Groups" section. This is especially so when the latest thread is merely a re-tread of the same thing that was aired previously.

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    Moderator Nereffid's Avatar
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    I don't suppose I'm the only one here who finds it amusing that people want to ban topics about Nazism?

    Other old ideas that we should probably ban because they're out-of-date:
    Your favourite Brahms symphony. Come on, people, the fourth is 130 years old! Enough already!
    Do you like Mozart. Seriously? The guy's been dead like two centuries.
    Should we listen to the music of murderers like Gesualdo. Hey! He said he was sorry!
    Medieval music. Oh for f***'s sake. AGAIN??

  25. #15
    Senior Member Dim7's Avatar
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    Somebody posted YET ANOTHER THREAD ON CLASSICAL MUSIC. Not this ****** again!!!
    ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

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