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Thread: Is there a correlation between political orientation and love for classical music?

  1. #91
    Senior Member Varick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzc4627 View Post
    Just when thinking about it, I'd say it would make sense that those who have a love for a grande accumulated tradition that has survived over centuries, to lean conservative. It'd make sense that the art which truly embraces meaning and value and morals, would attract the same type of people. The glorification of the individual and responsibility and the redemption of mankind which is seen in so much of the classical tradition would make me think that those who listen to and study it would also value responsibility and the individual and the individual's right to be free.

    However, this doesn't seem to be the case, and for a multitude of reasons. I'd imagine they range from the widespread subsidization of academia, to the natural tendency of artists or art-enjoying people to lean left. Whatever the reasons are, I don't like it and I hope to change it.
    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    It seems that more posters on TC are liberal, rather than conservative. However, we don't know the complete political breakdown of the total active membership, many of whom seem to be lurkers.

    My opinion is that there are more conservative people who gravitate toward classical music than liberals in the general population of music lovers.
    And this is why my favorite quote about music is by Beethoven, "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy."

    Music transcends any political/philosophical thought. It appeals to something deep in the soul, and there is no rhyme or reason to whom classical music will appeal. That is why I stated earlier in the thread that I would never hazard to say what political leanings more classical music lovers have. That's why it falls apart when someone tries to intellectualize it like dzc4627 does above. What he posted in the first paragraph makes intellectual sense. Then when you come to a web site like this, the facts fly in the face of what seemingly makes sense.

    V
    Last edited by Varick; Jan-22-2017 at 18:09.
    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

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  3. #92
    Senior Member Becca's Avatar
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    There are very few facts on this site, just a lot of personal anecdotes and opinions. Unfortunately one of the problems here, and most other places also, is that a lot of people have a very fuzzy idea of the difference between opinion and fact.

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  5. #93
    Senior Member isorhythm's Avatar
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    All my experience leads me to believe that classical music fans in the U.S. are left-leaning compared to the general population, but there are some U.S.-specific cultural reasons for this. I wouldn't be surprised if it were different elsewhere.

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  7. #94
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    My political views are liberal. I am passionately committed to minority rights (with a particular emphasis on LGBT rights and affirmative action). I am also a strong believer in government assistance, including Social Security and welfare programs, as well as access to affordable health insurance.

    I don't see any correlation between my political beliefs and my aesthetic preferences. In fact, my classical music tastes are fairly conservative; I listen primarily to 18th- and 19th-century music. Some people may have (or perceive) correlations between their political and musical interests, but for me personally these two spheres of my life are unrelated.

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  9. #95
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    It seems many active posters here are liberal.

    One can be an American Democrat and still be conservative.
    Facts don't care about your feelings.

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  11. #96
    Senior Member Varick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    One can be an American Democrat and still be conservative.
    Most are.

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    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

  12. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varick View Post
    Most are.

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    My brother and sister in law both are. He finds classical music "relaxing", unfortunately, so his invitations to chateau hpowders are rare events.
    Last edited by hpowders; Jan-22-2017 at 21:09.
    Facts don't care about your feelings.

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  14. #98
    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    It seems many active posters here are liberal.

    One can be an American Democrat and still be conservative.
    Thats is no surprise,even the living (and maybe the Dead) former Republican Presidents are Democrats now.....

    In OZ we have a term Kangaroo loose in the top Paddock...........
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  15. #99
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    As a lefty, I find much solace in classical music from the hatred, noise, and intolerance in modern conservatism. These days especially I find much relief in this music as unbelievable news and events unfold. I don't think it's a coincidence that the poll results show 2 to 1 liberal. So yes, I think there is a correlation.
    Last edited by Richard8655; Feb-10-2017 at 06:53.

  16. #100
    Senior Member dzc4627's Avatar
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    I've already posted here, but something notable that I have realized is that, my political views have moved in a coinciding manner with my preference in periods of music. I began as a total lefty, fawning over the chaos and supposed avoidance of cliche of the 20th century, but as I have gradually become more conservative these past few years, I have come to have general distaste for anything passed the 1920's, with many exceptions. There might be something there! A desire for order and objectively good art may coincide with a desire for capitalism and moral objectivity &c. Exception Caveat Exception Caveat Exception Caveat Exception Caveat

  17. #101
    Senior Member Dr. Shatterhand's Avatar
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    I'm somewhere between a Burkean conservative and a classical liberal (which these days translates to a moderate conservative).
    Last edited by Dr. Shatterhand; Feb-11-2017 at 03:48.

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  19. #102
    Senior Member dzc4627's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonTemplar View Post
    I'm somewhere between a Burkean conservative and a classical liberal (which these days translates to a moderate conservative).
    I like your style. What is the main difference between the two? I know Burke was a big proponent of private property, individual and otherwise, so how does he differ from a classical liberal?

  20. #103
    Senior Member Brahmsian Colors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettina View Post
    My political views are liberal. I am passionately committed to minority rights (with a particular emphasis on LGBT rights and affirmative action). I am also a strong believer in government assistance, including Social Security and welfare programs, as well as access to affordable health insurance.

    I don't see any correlation between my political beliefs and my aesthetic preferences. In fact, my classical music tastes are fairly conservative; I listen primarily to 18th- and 19th-century music. Some people may have (or perceive) correlations between their political and musical interests, but for me personally these two spheres of my life are unrelated.
    I think we pretty much see eye to eye...or maybe it's aye to aye.

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  22. #104
    Senior Member Varick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard8655 View Post
    As a lefty, I find much solace in classical music from the hatred, noise, and intolerance in modern conservatism. These days especially I find much relief in this music as unbelievable news and events unfold. I don't think it's a coincidence that the poll results show 2 to 1 liberal. So yes, I think there is a correlation.
    Funny, I find boat loads of more hate and intolerance from the left than from the right, especially conservatism. I don't think it's even close. I couldn't even conceive of a concerted conservative movement threatening to boycott a store if they decided to sell clothes made by Chelsea Clinton. I have yet to see a "conservative" riot. And if you want intolerance, you don't have to go any further than 99% of every college campus in the US. Funny how leftist speakers are welcomed, free to roam the campuses, but conservative speakers usually need body guards and/or police escorts on those same campuses. Tolerant indeed! Also, I know some people in the entertainment industry who are closet conservatives. Whenever I ask if they would ever make their views known publicly, I usually get, "Are you nuts? I'd lose my job in a second if they knew I was conservative."

    Anyway, I still don't see any correlation between political ideology and love of ANY type of music let alone classical.

    Quote Originally Posted by dzc4627 View Post
    I like your style. What is the main difference between the two? I know Burke was a big proponent of private property, individual and otherwise, so how does he differ from a classical liberal?
    Probably the biggest difference between a conservative and classic liberal these days (very few "classic" liberals left) is the liberal might want a few more Gov't social programs and slightly bigger programs than conservatives. However, most people these days conflate "liberal" with "leftist" mainly because leftism has taken over liberalism. Simon Templar is absolutely correct: These days a "classic" liberal is pretty much a conservative.

    V
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  24. #105
    Senior Member dzc4627's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varick View Post
    Funny, I find boat loads of more hate and intolerance from the left than from the right, especially conservatism. I don't think it's even close. I couldn't even conceive of a concerted conservative movement threatening to boycott a store if they decided to sell clothes made by Chelsea Clinton. I have yet to see a "conservative" riot. And if you want intolerance, you don't have to go any further than 99% of every college campus in the US. Funny how leftist speakers are welcomed, free to roam the campuses, but conservative speakers usually need body guards and/or police escorts on those same campuses. Tolerant indeed! Also, I know some people in the entertainment industry who are closet conservatives. Whenever I ask if they would ever make their views known publicly, I usually get, "Are you nuts? I'd lose my job in a second if they knew I was conservative."

    Anyway, I still don't see any correlation between political ideology and love of ANY type of music let alone classical.



    Probably the biggest difference between a conservative and classic liberal these days (very few "classic" liberals left) is the liberal might want a few more Gov't social programs and slightly bigger programs than conservatives. However, most people these days conflate "liberal" with "leftist" mainly because leftism has taken over liberalism. Simon Templar is absolutely correct: These days a "classic" liberal is pretty much a conservative.

    V
    Thanks for the reply, but I actually meant *classical* liberal in the sense of the classical period. You know, those fruits of the enlightenment: self ownership, private property, etc. And Adam Smith's economics as well. The classical liberal value system, beginning in the 18th century, was the very foundation of the US. Individual freedoms and rights and markets and all of that lovely stuff.

    As to what Simon meant... well, by him using the specific term *classical* as opposed to "20th century" or something else, I'd imagine he is using the standard definition of classical liberal.

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