View Poll Results: Are you conservative or liberal?

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Thread: Is there a correlation between political orientation and love for classical music?

  1. #106
    Senior Member Gordontrek's Avatar
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    I feel slightly hamstrung in the classical music world. I classify myself as conservative; I lean fairly far to the right, but not "alt-right" by any means. I've seen what happens to other conservatives in my business when people in charge get wind that they're conservative. That's one of the reasons I left mainstream social media- it was getting more and more dangerous for me to reveal any sort of opinion on anything that went against what I'm expected to believe. Meanwhile, the people I interact with on a daily basis saw no problem with viciously attacking people like me. Maybe it's not like this everywhere. But this is in my home state, Alabama, which is already deeply conservative. If it's like this here, I can't imagine what other places are like.
    Classical music seems very liberal because liberals make the most noise. But I've found the industry to have large amounts of "closet" conservatives who really can't make ANY noise lest they either get fired or ostracized. So no, I don't believe there's any correlation. Politics is no indicator of musical taste. I know conservatives who listen to nothing but classical (i.e. me!) and liberals who hate it with a passion, and vice versa.
    "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I won't." - George S. Patton

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  3. #107
    Senior Member Varick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzc4627 View Post
    Thanks for the reply, but I actually meant *classical* liberal in the sense of the classical period. You know, those fruits of the enlightenment: self ownership, private property, etc. And Adam Smith's economics as well. The classical liberal value system, beginning in the 18th century, was the very foundation of the US. Individual freedoms and rights and markets and all of that lovely stuff.

    As to what Simon meant... well, by him using the specific term *classical* as opposed to "20th century" or something else, I'd imagine he is using the standard definition of classical liberal.
    Oh, I stand corrected. I saw the word "classical" but thought you meant "classic" (only because many people that I've come across make that mistake). I'm not sure there is much of a difference between a Burkean Conservative and a classical liberal. They were both ethical monotheists (believing in one God and that God is the source of all morals and ethics) and they both believed that in order for a democracy to survive, the citizenry (not the gov't) must be God-based in their morals and ethics, and there must be limits on the power of the gov't.

    I'm not a Burkean "expert", but I do know his basic philosophy on man, God, morals, ethics, and gov't.

    V
    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

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  5. #108
    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    I've left already
    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

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  7. #109
    Senior Member Sloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varick View Post
    Oh, I stand corrected. I saw the word "classical" but thought you meant "classic" (only because many people that I've come across make that mistake). I'm not sure there is much of a difference between a Burkean Conservative and a classical liberal. They were both ethical monotheists (believing in one God and that God is the source of all morals and ethics) and they both believed that in order for a democracy to survive, the citizenry (not the gov't) must be God-based in their morals and ethics, and there must be limits on the power of the gov't.

    I'm not a Burkean "expert", but I do know his basic philosophy on man, God, morals, ethics, and gov't.

    V
    Classical liberal is essentially the same as libertarian or neoliberal. Complete against any kind of letting the government provide needs for the population only want a night watching state that only take care of police and defense sometimes not even that.

  8. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloe View Post
    Classical liberal is essentially the same as libertarian or neoliberal. Complete against any kind of letting the government provide needs for the population only want a night watching state that only take care of police and defense sometimes not even that.
    Also I'd add:
    Libertarian: everyone for themselves.

  9. #111
    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    Interesting results. I would have thought there are more conservatives than liberals.
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

  10. #112
    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil loves classical View Post
    Interesting results. I would have thought there are more conservatives than liberals.
    Closet conservatives
    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

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  12. #113
    Senior Member Tallisman's Avatar
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    I'm a grumblingly tolerant reactionary... can't say I fit wholly into just one of those categories. I feel nostalgia for a more sane left and for a more principled right.

    On the topic of politics and composers, I found this graph on the Political Compass website that may stir some discussion:

    composers.gif

  13. #114
    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
    I'm a grumblingly tolerant reactionary... can't say I fit wholly into just one of those categories. I feel nostalgia for a more sane left and for a more principled right.

    On the topic of politics and composers, I found this graph on the Political Compass website that may stir some discussion:

    composers.gif
    Yep, we have been there already refer Would the Great Composers be Conservative, Moderate or Liberal?

    I had my own take on this Post #27 &
    http://www.talkclassical.com/attachm...7&d=1455765550
    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

  14. #115
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    Of course classical music lovers used to be members of the elite and the elite used to be conservative; popular music is music for the crowds who tends to populist politics which used to be socialist or liberal.

    But things have got more complicated. First of all there is less a class society anymore (we are all individuals with own individual tastes now) and as Dalrymple pointed out many times: instead of that the opinion of the ruling class is the ruling opinion (as Marx said) there is more a vulgarisation of the elite going on so instead that the proletarians are elevated to elitist manners, like a taste for classical music, the elite behaves more and more like proletarians. That's why we see the King of the Netherlands dance to techno house and nobody would be amazed if he also has some tribal tattoos. Maybe especially in the Netherlands nobody is even allowed to feel superior to the masses, not even the King!

    But even then there is still some truth that classical music is elitist so especially the elite - the upper classes - listen to it. But nowadays we have a cosmopolitan liberal-progressive elite while the proletarians are conservative (or revolutionary in a populist or even 'fascist' way)! That explains the poll results...
    Last edited by Agamemnon; May-08-2017 at 20:16.

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  16. #116
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    I think it is also interesting to note the political preferences of the great composers but normally you don't hear much about that so I would have to dig into that. But Beethoven was of course famously revolutionary in political taste. And even more famous is Wagner who was a socialist revolutionary and an antisemite (in some important way Hitler was just bringing Wagners operatic heroism to real life). Many romantic composers were nationalists. BTW, Stalin had great taste in music because Mozart's 20th piano concerto was his favorite.

  17. #117
    Senior Member Tallisman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    Of course classical music lovers used to be members of the elite and the elite used to be conservative; popular music is music for the crowds who tends to populist politics which used to be socialist or liberal.
    Though some people may sniff at the internet, we can give it some thanks for having done much to introduce the 'masses' to classical music. Beethoven's 9th is on 75 million views on Youtube. That can only be good, even if they are only visiting for the ode to joy...

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  19. #118
    Senior Member mathisdermaler's Avatar
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    My opinions vary but tend towards conservatism. What I'm not is a "progressive." Ironically, when it comes to music, I am all for progress! I'm against govt. funding of the arts, though. I believe in laws protecting artists, but I think if artists can't get enough support on their own then the govt. must let them fail. It would be an injustice to do otherwise. I love Wagner, but why should anyone have to fund my local opera house?

    Ultimately I feel like truly great artists will find a way to make their art whether or not they receive funding, no matter their circumstances, as long as they are legally free to do so (and not otherwise oppressed). How many more Van Gogh's would there be if everyone received a UBI? I'm skeptical.
    Last edited by mathisdermaler; Jul-27-2017 at 21:41.
    "Not fare well, but fare forward, voyagers." -T.S. Eliot

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  21. #119
    Senior Member DeepR's Avatar
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    Music and politics, yuck. Even if it's the composer's intent to make that connection, I still don't want to know about it.
    Last edited by DeepR; Jul-27-2017 at 22:16.

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  23. #120
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    Update in real time: I have always been and probably always will be a conservative person.

    As a voter, I am a registered Independent.

    I don't think a positive correlation can be proven regarding political beliefs and love of classical music.

    I'm sure liberals, moderates, conservatives, independents, and libertarians are well represented as classical music lovers.

    Just my opinion. I have no proof.
    Last edited by hpowders; Jul-28-2017 at 12:28.

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